Article about Dave Bliss & SMU Basketball

[OldPony]

Dear Pony Express- Did you not see the irony of OP's post. I even expained later in that thread that OP was sarcastic. Why would anyone want to hire a coach "if things escalate to a scandal"?
I am not nor have I ever been a "win at all cost" supporter. I have defended Dement many times from bashers here because he has run a squeaky clean program and is rebuilding the right way.
I do think Dement needs to get us to post season this year or lose his job. That is because I see a very solid starting 5 and maybe even a couple of pretty good subs. Most of my reasoning though is that it may take a new coach to get some things done at SMU which need to be done. Revamping Moody, more athletic friendly majors which allow transfers from JCs etc. Having a PE Major for example doesn't dilute SMU's academic standing but gives athletes a Major in their area of interest. To allow credits for JC transfers isn't a bad thing either.
I have also said many times here that the lack of success in sports at SMU is not near the embarrassment that I felt over the DP. I personally would rather do away with sports than allow the kind of program that was being run in the early 80's. Many idolize Meyer, Potts etc and vilify Pye. I don't. Pye inherited a criminal program and put the brakes on hard. His failing and those of his successors was mosly in allowing the restricitions he placed on the programs initially to remain for way too long without reviewing the effect on the efforts of clean coaches and the reasonable help they needed to become competitive. Many of thise have just been eliminated in the past 3 years. There are still others which need to be if we are to be competitive.
I don't want to be on equal footing with FSU. I do want to be on equal footing with Duke, KU, Stanford, USC, Boise St, Hawaii, Purdue and the many others who have built good programs in basketball and/or football without getting on the NCAA sh*t list.

[Johnny Rock]

Well said Old Pony. However, do not be ashamed of the Death Penalty. SMU was treated unfairly. After all, everyone in the country was breaking the rules, including most of the SWC schools. Assuming that Dement does not make the NCAA tournament, who do we replace him with? I'm sure Copeland has a list just in case.

[No Cal Pony]

I agree with OldPony. As Stallion has also pointed out, SMU needs to allow for certain elements to come into play that make SMU more inviting for more and even better "student-athletes." We should be willing to allow more friendly majors. Most every school that we might want to emuulate does, or allows for academic situations that can be applied to the "student-athlete."

Of course, this must happen before the winning occurs, not the other way around. Bennett has started some excitement, but needs more help for the administration and faculty. Dement has gotten some good talent, but that hasn't continued in an effective manner. While getting B Hop was great, it doesn't automatically say we will get more kids to come play with him. Dement needs more tools, and I'm also not sure he can make it happen personally. He has his fans and his detractors. From my limited experience, it seems like maybe he has gotten us as far as he can. We shall see, but the tools aren't all in place for us to compete with many others.

Also, can we get being ashamed of our violations? We were set up and caught. We paid our penalty. Let's move on. Wake up. We were not the only school cheating, and many, MANY schools continue today. Do you hear their fans being ashamed?

I am proud of SMU and look forward to a brighter future.

Go Ponies!

[OldPony]

There is some revisionist history going on here. Yes- We were caught doing many things that others have done. The difference was in the level the corruption rose to at SMU. No one has been cited for corruption so thoroughly pervasive (ie the President, members of the Board of Regents etc). I am not ashamed of SMU (Note my coninued presence on this board) but during that period we were the poster children for football cheating gone to the ultimate limit. No one gets madder than I when big schools get slapped on the wrist for serious violations but no one else has even been accused of the things we (our benefactor Bill Clements)admitted to. Yes- it's time to get over it but it must NEVER happen again.

[KnuckleStang]

Don't get me wrong, I am also proud of our Mustangs, and proud to call myself one. But I don't really see how we can be expected not to be "ashamed" of our '80's history. We DID deserve it, and we should always remember it. It was systematic fraud, from the players, coaches, boosters, athletic administration, all the way up to the bleepin Governor of Texas. (What other school can say that about their governor?) This in the face of previous similar violations and sanctions, and a 1985 VOTE among D-1 schools to institute the whole DP policy, as a "deterrent" (guess who was one of the 6 votes "not in favor?") Yes, we "did our time," and we can, and should, and HAVE moved on, but when I look back on that period, it doesn't make me proud, far from it.

True, everybody else was and still is doing it to some degree, but to me the real tragedy is that the DP didn't have the intended effect, because everyone knows it will never be handed down again. At least not to any national powerhouse team. Remember all the talk around that time about "who's next?" If they had stood true to the harsh DP policy, and enforced it to this day, college football might have 10 fewer big-name teams, and would have cleaned itself up quicker than you can say, well, I don't know what. And it would have survived. They made a powerful statement, but didn't have the nuts to follow through, and still don't. But this has all been hashed through before.

Many other schools have deserved it since then, Alabama and Kentucky come to mind ($115,000 to a high school coach, anyone?), but we were among the most brazen and, dare I say, stupid, of the bunch, and we made it very, very, almost comically easy for the country to make a laughing stock of S.M.U.

I love my Mustangs, in their present day form, win or lose. We took the hardest hit in history in the '80's. When I hear that we basically got off easy (retaining basketball), I get sad, and it makes me feel ornery. That's all.

S-M-U spells SMU!!!

[OldPony]

Now let's go kick some [deleted] this year in football and basketball. Many of today's players came because they want to be part of turning around the fortunes of our programs. I hope the support on this board translates to support on the field and court for years to come. Screaming full houses of fans inspire players. I see the difficulty in selling 32,000 tickets but I don't understand why we can't make Moody the loudest, most difficult place for visitors to play. Out of about 50,000 alums in Dallas, one would think that 5,000 could be brought to b'ball games. If that happened, we would start winning. I know winning will bring more out but its a little chicken and egg here. Go Ponies!!!!!!!!

[Hoop Fan]

SMU didn't get unjust treatment in getting the DP, the railroad job is that no one else has gotten it. Not even the most biased SMU fan would suggest we didn't do wrong. But the truth is, 90% of D-1 was cheating in very MATERIAL ways at the time. Whether SMU was most blatant or arrogant or whatever is still a cop out. Its a combination of selective investigating and selective enforcement. I guarantee you that if Alabama commits another major infraction within the 5 year window of the Albert Means case, it will simply not be investigated. And if it is, the NCAA will just come up with some "they cooperated" garbage that in the end would lead to a slap on the wrist. I find it absurd to adjust the punishment of an institution because of the cooperation or lack of by a few particular individuals. If the individual is being punished, as in a murder case, then maybe that individual's cooperation is relevant to sentencing. SMU should not have been fried for Bill Clements political situation and personal conflicts with investigators.

[OldPony]

Hoop- I agree that others have deserved the DP also with the definition that the NCAA set out. It pi$$es me off that no one has gotten it but us. The NCAA has basically changed their policy but won't announce it to the world BECAUSE of what it did to SMU.
SMU's situation WAS different though. It wasn't just Bill Clements. There were others on the Boasrd of Regents. The coaches knew. The President of the school knew and was threatened with his job if he told. A past President resigned and went to a smaller and less prestigious job (Drew University- Can you imagine taking that job over SMU)than SMU because of similar threats. Remember Paul Hardin? We can act like we were picked on unjustly but our situation was WORSE than others have been or at least anything that has come to light on any others including Bama and Clemson. Players were bribing the school after a penalty for paying players threatening to "tell all" if the payments did't continue. They continued. SMU fought tooth and nail with the NCAA and ivestigated all other schools in the SWC resulting in most of the others getting penalties but they could't find anyone with the institutional corruption that existed at SMU. We can cry about how we were unjustly singled out but there is a reason that we were singled out. The Methodist Church even took action against SMU and required more input on the running of the school and the Board representation. People on national TV were saying that our mascot should be changed to the Cheetahs. It was common to talk about the "best team money could buy", Eric D "couldn't afford the paycut to turn pro", to say "if SMU cheated as well as they play football, they would have never been caught". The scandal and the fallout were horrendous. No school has been caught as red handed with the corruption so deep within the school nor suffered as much because of it. We now have clean programs and we are rebuilding. Most interested parites predicted that it would take us 10 years to rebound from this fiasco and IF we had started getting the restrictions off quicker, maybe we could have done it in 10 but all recognized the huge hole that our representatives put us in. I'm tired of talking about this subject but when people start saying that it was one or two or three people who caused this debacle, the record needs to be straightened out. People like Clements. Meyer, Potts, Blount etc killed SMU and caused great harm to the University. They are not friends or heroes in this sad story. Bill Clements can give us $10 million a year from now to forever and he can never make up for what he and his ilk did. Now let's quit talking about it and get these programs rebuilt. The right way!!!!!

[Hoop Fan]

Again, SMU was wrong. But its never just the boosters who know about cheating whether its SMU or Michigan. Coaches, ADs, even presidents, ALWAYS know to some extent. Its a charade to pretend they do not. Anyone within shouting distance of the Michigan program knew or should have known that kids from the steets of Detroit do not drive brand new SUVs to practice. Maybe its not as offensive to our sensibilities if those people turn the other cheek, but its no less of an offense really. SMU was arrogant and stupid and wrong, but nobody is denying that. Just want equal justice for equal crimes. Arrogance is not really a crime, and say what you want, but Clements arrogance and stonewall weighed significantly into the penalty. By the way, academic fraud should be much more punished than paying players in college athletics, but Minnesota, Tennessee, Fresno and many other massive offenders will never get the stigma SMU has had. Everybody acts like SMU paying players was so shocking, but in the end the method is minor relative to the act inself, and everybody was using bagmen and the NCAA knew it. To punish SMU so severely for arrogance was a blatant case of example setting.

[EastStang]

I agree with both sentiments actually. We got hammered and we deserved it. We also had no incidents of academic fraud in the 1980's did we? I agree Michigan, Minnesota, Kentucky, Arkansas, Alabama, Washington, Fresno all deserve to be taken out back and shot. But NCAA Penalty Committee doesn't have the stones to do it except I suspect they'll club Fresno pretty hard. They got caught and had the audacity to hire Tark and thumb their noses at the NCAA when they did. Add in that they are a mid-major so no one really cares, will allow the NCAA minions to be cruel to them. Sorry for the jaded reaction, but facts is facts. We got what we deserved, the other SWC programs skated, and no one else has gotten even close to what we got. Since the NCAA lost its television rights, it has been left a toothless lion. Who cares if a school cheats, ABC's checks are just as good. So, you miss a bowl opportunity for a year if you get caught and a few scholies.

[Charleston Pony]

Guys & gals: this issue can be debated from here to eternity and nothing is going to change until the NBA & NFL give high school graduates the same professional alternative that exists for baseball players today.But...why should they incure the cost?

Television has grown the college game to what it is today and the so called "educators" who run our colleges and universities, while they might be nervous about the practices at their schools, aren't going to kill the golden goose. If these presidents and trustees were truly embarassed, the would adopt academic reforms and do away with the practice of special admissions that allow kids into college who really have no business being there.

If there was a professional alternative, the quality of college football and bball wouldn't be quite what it is today, but my guess is it would still be very popular. Look at college baseball. While not squeaky clean, it's much better than football/basketball and that's because of the minor league opportunities kids have.

[smudad]

More from Koncak.
<A HREF="http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/sports/colleges/6461046.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/sports/colleges/6461046.htm</A>

Seems rather disingenuous of a guy taking an illegal $500 looking down on other recruits, calling them 'thugs'. Ethics have, in fact, become highly relative or situational.

[No Cal Pony]

OldPony, yes, you are correct that the level of knowledge ran high. Yes, it was stupid and arrogant. Yes, I agree we cannot allow for a similar situation. But, as Hoop Fan and others mention, it is not unique to SMU. Don't tell me that the Prez. ADs or other such folks at ut, michigan, lsu, alabama, ETC., don't know what is going on. If you believe that, then you are sorely mistaken. They know. If I know about situations that have occured, please, how could they not, unless they live under some rock.

I agree we should not forget, but let us move on. Support the kids we have today, and help for those to come. Bennett and Dement need all the positive support they can get. I for one, hope we can move on and up.

Go Ponies!

[Pony_Fan]

Koncack needs to just shut his mouth - what good is all this now? We got hurt worse than any program will and it still hurts.

[The CPC]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by smudad:
<B>More from Koncak.
<A HREF="http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/sports/colleges/6461046.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/sports/colleges/6461046.htm</A>

Seems rather disingenuous of a guy taking an illegal $500 looking down on other recruits, calling them 'thugs'. Ethics have, in fact, become highly relative or situational. </B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The word "thugs" fit Larry Davis and Carl Wright like a glove. There's a difference between accepting money from a booster and committing actual crimes. Regardless of what you may think of Koncak, he wasnt getting stoned on the team bus after games and he didnt go to jail for forgery. Perhaps thats what seperates him from some of the other players of his era.