NCAA Getting Itself in Big Trouble-Admits its a Cartel

[Stallion]

sounds like that's a major screw up by their expert. Once the NCAA admits its a cartel-more precisely a "cartel that does good things"- its not a large leap to serious restraint of trade issues. The P5 by extension similarly constitute a contract, combination and conspiracy in restraint of trade which should be a per se violation of the Sherman Antitrust Act just as the NCAA was found to be in OU/Alabama v. NCAA in the early 1980s with regard to TV rights. Under Supreme Court precedent the individual schools not the NCAA-and by extension not the P5 conferences own their TV, bowl and advertising rights. That's the KEY ISSUE everybody ignores and the Supreme Court was quite clear. (Note UT, Notre Dame and BYU seem to be the only institutions I can think of which are even arguably operating in compliance with the Supreme Court decision since they operate their own TV network-at least in part).

The entire thing has been unraveling since the Supreme Court refused to recognize an antitrust exemption for universities as an educational institutions under a Student/Athlete Model. Note the "Cartel that does good things" Defense in 2014 is nothing more than a reformulated Student Athlete Model Defense in the 1980s except the "good things the cartel does" ie the NCAA is much more debatable in 2014 when these schools are simply huge businesses carving up money based upon economic competitive goals rather than arguably academically based goals. There is no academic or "good things" rational for upholding the P5 Power Grab. The cork is out of the Bottle. For the life of me I don't understand why the leftovers don't file an antitrust lawsuit. Neither NCAA nor the P5 can defend the mess they've created

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootbal ... ood-things

[Stallion]

PBS Frontline did an excellent job as usual framing the issues in the OBannon case just a couple of weeks ago. I still think if the Courts won't give the NCAA some reasonable protection from the Sherman Anti Trust Laws then Congress damn sure ought to under reasonable, fair treatment of universities and players under a student athlete model-that is fair to the students. This could be at least the 3rd defeat of the NCAA under the Sherman Anti-Trust Act. They also lost the Graduate/Assistant Coach lawsuit too.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline ... -a-cartel/

[East Coast Mustang]

Interesting point about TV contracts and the P5 conferences perhaps not being fully compliant with the 'OU/UGA case from the 80s with their current deals. I've also wondered about that.

I wonder if the future could hold nationwide TV deals from the major networks (ESPN, CBS, Fox, etc) across all conferences in the FBS subdivision, and then the pot being divvied up amongst all teams, similar to how the pro leagues (and the old CFA) do it, and then the conferences would be realigned (4x18 or 4x20 or something) to make more geographic sense and cut down on travel costs since the need for having more TV markets in each conference would become disincentivized.

This would obviously require some major judicial intervention beyond the O'Bannon case, but its difficult to see how the NCAA v. OU/UGA opinion could be purely carried out in reality: would every school individually sell their games to networks? That would be a mess, but it might also prompt schools to revisit some of the rivalries that have been lost in recent years: a lot more people would rather watch Texas vs. A&M than Texas/TCU. Likewise, who wants to see Maryland and Iowa play?

Also, if individual schools are negotiating their TV deals, I bet you'd see ADs salaries skyrocket as the demand for contractually savvy ADs with superior negotiating skills would be through the roof.

Finally, what happens if some Congressmen from Idaho, Wyoming, Connecticut, New Mexico, Nevada, etc start standing up and saying we want our flagship universities to get a piece of the pie, otherwise we're filing another massive lawsuit against the P5 cartel. That's something I could definitely see happening if Slive continues the sabre rattling about "Division 4"

[East Coast Mustang]

But, under the OU v. NCAA case, can the individual schools willingly cede their TV rights over to their conference and still be in compliance? Or does that inherently create an antitrust violation?

[EastStang]

You have schools from roughly 30 states (all state instiutiions) that are part of the P5 Cartel. That's more than 1/2 the US senators and a majority of the Congressmen. So, looking to Congress to do something would be wishful, unless of course you have individual members who vote for the little guys in their states. Take Texas for example we have several P5 schools and a bunch on the outside looking in. Same with OK, same with MD, same with North Carolina, same with Alabama, same with Louisiana, OH, MI, IL, FL. So, That's the only way it flies.

[Stallion]

The judge in this case is clueless about College Football. In the 3rd week of testimony she stated she was "confused by the mention of third parties in the recruitment of athletes". In other words she has no idea that wealthy boosters would be willing to pay millions of dollars for the top recruits to sign a letter of intent to Alma Mater U. How could the NCAA so poorly present its case that she had to ask this question in the 3rd week of trial? I'm beginning to think just from the tweets I'm reading from the ESPN reporter that this case is not going well for the NCAA and there just might be open bidding for college athletes in recruiting. The issues in this case are being presented at trial in a much broader way than whether past athletes are entitled to a share of their advertising rights. Its being presented as if high school recruits should be able to individually negotiate to grant their advertising rights to the school with the highest bid. The Judge's lack of knowledge should be a real concern to those that want College Sports to remain an amateur sport

[East Coast Mustang]

Stallion- curious to know what you think the ultimate outcome in all of this will be.

Will Slive and the rest of the P5 break away and form a Division 4 and use the welfare of the student-athlete as their justification for doing so? It seems to me like that would set off another legal [deleted] storm that could take years to unravel.

[Stallion]

All the commentators with legal expertise from the major news outlets are suggesting things are going very poorly for the NCAA

As for the breakaway from the NCAA, how is the P5 any different from the NCAA as far as this repeated Sherman Anti-trust exposure? Its not. They still are collectively controlling the market through TV Contracts and Bowl Tie-ins. From my perspective the only way that the P5 can escape the exact same scrutiny is to allow each individual school to negotiate its own TV rights and allow each individual school to decide which bowl bid to accept. Of course, in that scenario a Bowl could choose a non-P5 school because the conference tie-ins would be illegal. Now that doesn't mean P5 won't decide to separate. There is no issue of monopoly violation until someone actually files a lawsuit questioning the restraint. Trial and appellate remedies could last a decade. Before its decided SMU might not have a major college football or basketball team by then. But one has to wonder if the NCAA gets hit for its 3rd antitrust judgment in a few decades plus the Northwestern Union case-maybe its time to consider a fair, reasonable legislative antitrust exemption from Congress.

[StallionsModelT]

I wonder if the NCAA would argue that schools with athletic budgets that dwarf P5 schools is a clear indication that there should be a distinction (P5 vs. G5). I mean honestly does the athletic department at Arkansas State have anything in common with the likes of UT, Ohio State, Michigan, Florida, Alabama, etc?

[Stallion]

I kind of pulled it out my [deleted] because of the chronic legal problems I see with a governing body collectively enforcing rules over 125 different universities/business operations but apparently this movement to seek a legislative remedy through an antitrust exemption from Congress rather than just offering a legal defense in the Courts is gaining some steam. Here's a recent proposal;

http://chronicle.com/blogs/players/watc ... ncaa/33711

[Hoop Fan]

I wonder if the NCAA would argue that schools with athletic budgets that dwarf P5 schools is a clear indication that there should be a distinction (P5 vs. G5). I mean honestly does the athletic department at Arkansas State have anything in common with the likes of UT, Ohio State, Michigan, Florida, Alabama, etc?

Sure, that's true, but likewise one could argue that Wake Forest or Kansas have nothing in common with those football giants either, but they happen to be in the circle of trust and money. Why not just narrow the whole thing down to about 10 schools who can play in their own super elite league? I think it's ones you name plus OU, LSU, UCLA, A&M and Georgia. Sorry to the rest, shut it down. That's all you need to have a full season and declare a champ for TV. Call it the "Pre-Qualifed, Land Grant Sponsored, Taxpayer Subsidized Quasi Educational, Located in Fertile Recruiting Areas League Championship Series". While at it, speaking of the World Cup, why even let little Costa Rica or the Netherlands play? Its a waste of time, their markets aren't big enough.

[ponyinNC]

I wonder if the NCAA would argue that schools with athletic budgets that dwarf P5 schools is a clear indication that there should be a distinction (P5 vs. G5). I mean honestly does the athletic department at Arkansas State have anything in common with the likes of UT, Ohio State, Michigan, Florida, Alabama, etc?

Sure, that's true, but likewise one could argue that Wake Forest or Kansas have nothing in common with those football giants either, but they happen to be in the circle of trust and money. Why not just narrow the whole thing down to about 10 schools who can play in their own super elite league? I think it's ones you name plus OU, LSU, UCLA, A&M and Georgia. Sorry to the rest, shut it down. That's all you need to have a full season and declare a champ for TV. Call it the "Pre-Qualifed, Land Grant Sponsored, Taxpayer Subsidized Quasi Educational, Located in Fertile Recruiting Areas League Championship Series". While at it, speaking of the World Cup, why even let little Costa Rica or the Netherlands play? Its a waste of time, their markets aren't big enough.

yessir. amen.

[Stallion]

What differentiates

BYU from Wake Forest
UCF from Washington St
Boise from Kansas
Cincy from Indiana

Inclusion in the Big Boy Club. It has nothing to do with the competitive strengths of the football programs or even attendance

[Arkpony]

Stallion is right on with his analysis. The P5 should be struck down by the courts under anti trust law.