What about the Wake Forest model?

[Original Frank]

Since no SMU fans want to use the TCU model for athletic success, what about trying to use the Wake Forest model? If it works in the ACC, why not in CUSA? They are a perennial NCAA tournament team and have had quite a bit of success the past few years in football. Wake has a smaller enrollment than SMU and clearly they face much better athletic competition than SMU does.

Two points:

1. You, as a TCU troll whose only intent here is to demean SMU while extolling the virtues of TCU, make a fundamentally stupid point. Wake is in the ACC. ACC = BCS. BCS = mucho dinero irrespecitve of individual team success. Comparing SMU and its success (or lack thereof) to any BCS school is apples and oranges. Have you been through Waco recently and seen what they have done with their shared Big 12 TV and bowl game dividends? Wow! Their women's softball field looks like the Frisco Roughriders ballpark. It is amazing! Baylor, Wake, Vandy, etc. all enjoy an athletic budget that is about ten times as large as SMU's, and, with very few exceptions, it is not because of on-the-field glories. So until SMU is in a BCS conference (likely never), your comparisons with Wake are not relevant. Comparisons with TCU, and any C-USA school are valid and approprite. Comparisons with BCS schools are not.

2. The Death Penalty is NOT what has held SMU back for so long. I submit that the Death Penalty was only relevant for about 10 years. The larger continuing problem was the demise of the SWC. The quality of the pool of recruits available to a non-BCS school is simply not as good as the quality of recruits available to a BCS school. This, plus the loss of annual games with huge state schools UT and TAM and other "natural rivals", has caused the recruiting pool to shrink appreciably. In the old SWC days, local kids might select SMU after the big dogs were full. With good coaching, the SMUs, Baylors, and Houstons of the world had a chance for a big year every so often. Now days, these high-end recruits may go to Iowa, Missouri, Oregon, or any semi-obscure BCS school. These schools successfully recruit in our area because quotos for the local BCS schools simply can't keep all the talent available here. The high-end leftovers simply go to lesser BCS schools, not to the "mid-majors". So, if the DP contributed to the demise of the SWC, we can blame the DP indirectly. But the direct cause of the current situation is the demise of the SWC and SMU being left out of the BCS.

Regrettably playing right into your hand, TCU remains the specific model that SMU must find a way to emulate (beat your chest, FrogSnob). Personally, I think Orsini knows this and I think he is intent on catching up as quickly as possible. SMU must find a way to compete as a big fish in whatever pond it finds itself. To date, we have fared poorly in this regard.

You are still a lowlife TCU troll.

[PonySnob]

Two points:

1. You, as a TCU troll whose only intent here is to demean SMU while extolling the virtues of TCU, make a fundamentally stupid point. Wake is in the ACC. ACC = BCS. BCS = mucho dinero irrespecitve of individual team success. Comparing SMU and its success (or lack thereof) to any BCS school is apples and oranges. Have you been through Waco recently and seen what they have done with their shared Big 12 TV and bowl game dividends? Wow! Their women's softball field looks like the Frisco Roughriders ballpark. It is amazing! Baylor, Wake, Vandy, etc. all enjoy an athletic budget that is about ten times as large as SMU's, and, with very few exceptions, it is not because of on-the-field glories. So until SMU is in a BCS conference (likely never), your comparisons with Wake are not relevant. Comparisons with TCU, and any C-USA school are valid and approprite. Comparisons with BCS schools are not.

2. The Death Penalty is NOT what has held SMU back for so long. I submit that the Death Penalty was only relevant for about 10 years. The larger continuing problem was the demise of the SWC. The quality of the pool of recruits available to a non-BCS school is simply not as good as the quality of recruits available to a BCS school. This, plus the loss of annual games with huge state schools UT and TAM and other "natural rivals", has caused the recruiting pool to shrink appreciably. In the old SWC days, local kids might select SMU after the big dogs were full. With good coaching, the SMUs, Baylors, and Houstons of the world had a chance for a big year every so often. Now days, these high-end recruits may go to Iowa, Missouri, Oregon, or any semi-obscure BCS school. These schools successfully recruit in our area because quotos for the local BCS schools simply can't keep all the talent available here. The high-end leftovers simply go to lesser BCS schools, not to the "mid-majors". So, if the DP contributed to the demise of the SWC, we can blame the DP indirectly. But the direct cause of the current situation is the demise of the SWC and SMU being left out of the BCS.

Regrettably playing right into your hand, TCU remains the specific model that SMU must find a way to emulate (beat your chest, FrogSnob). Personally, I think Orsini knows this and I think he is intent on catching up as quickly as possible. SMU must find a way to compete as a big fish in whatever pond it finds itself. To date, we have fared poorly in this regard.

You are still a lowlife TCU troll.

You can kiss my [deleted]. Those that do know me, know that I cannot stand TCU.....and I am sure that I am in the stands of a lot more SMU football and basketball games than you are. My point was that Wake is a solid academic school with one of the smallest enrollments in Div 1, and yet they enjoy top 25 rankings in football and basketball in a much harder conference than SMU does. Perhaps we should look at their standards for "student-athletes"....if it works in the ACC, it should work in CUSA!

[carolina stang]

Perspective from WFU area:

We live between Greensboro and Winston Salem and I have followed their program fairly closely this year. WF's coach Jim Grobe (who actually as I recall turned down Baylor before Guy Morriss was hired)has said many times in interviews that he pushes ACC membership as the top selling point with recruits. They have a chance to play the traditional rivals like NC State, UNC, Duke etc. (all within 90 minutes) along with marquee or used to be top programs like Miami and FSU. Plus the chance (at least thoretically) for a National Championship. He also was successful very fast at WFU and save for last year has kept the team very competitive.

At SMU, we don't have many of those advantages. As Frank wrote TCU is a better comparison/model because of the conferences that are played in. Hell, Rossley got some talent in here when he still had the SWC story to sell. To me, the recruiting really fell off beginning with the Feb 95 recruiting class when the SWC was already announced as dead.

Saying all that, Grobe has done a heckuva job here and doesn't have many of the resources his conference brethren have. Would love to see what he would have done at SMU over the same period.