Give Jones Credit

[couch 'em]

I will have to run the numbers for pre-Bennett, but since Bennett:

I have used actual data to show that the strength of schedule under Bennett and under Jones is very similar.

I have used actual data to show that offensive production is similar under both, with slight edge to Rusty Burns although that doesnt include last year. I have shown defense is WAY better under Mason than Jones.

The numbers show we arent really much better than we were except defense, and if Bennett had Mason as D-coordinator we would have likely gone to bowls then too.

[PerunaPunch]

June Jones took a job that had removed all the institutional barriers those previous coaches faced

I get what you're saying, but Jones didn't take "a job that had removed all the institutional barriers". He took the job on the condition that those institutional barriers be removed. We need to give him credit for that. Without Jones, is it 30, 35 or 40 years before things changed and we go to a crappy bowl?

And I think Jones probably could have managed 1 or two wins a year (Rice, Tulane, Houston, TCU, and Arkansas all had some rather mediocre teams during that decade), but that's all speculation.

But Jones had something Cavan and Rossley didn't, and that's a National Coach of the Year award, the biggest turnaround in NCAA history under his belt, and 25 years of frustrated alumni backing him up. It's not apples-to-apples because Jones forced the institution to change. He flat out would never have come here under the restrictions Cavan and Rossley had to work under. That was made perfectly clear to Turner and Orsini. And that's why I think Rebel 10's statement is so ignorant. He either would have changed the system or he wouldn't have coached here. Never mind the fact that in the '90s June was coaching in the NFL.

As an aside, in the late '90s and early '00s when Jones was coaching Hawaii, I don't think he ever lost to the Mustangs. So that kinda undermines Rebel's assertion a little bit too.

[Rebel10]

I will have to run the numbers for pre-Bennett, but since Bennett:

I have used actual data to show that the strength of schedule under Bennett and under Jones is very similar.

I have used actual data to show that offensive production is similar under both, with slight edge to Rusty Burns although that doesnt include last year. I have shown defense is WAY better under Mason than Jones.

The numbers show we arent really much better than we were except defense, and if Bennett had Mason as D-coordinator we would have likely gone to bowls then too.

Good point as well Couchem.

[Rebel10]

June Jones took a job that had removed all the institutional barriers those previous coaches faced

I get what you're saying, but Jones didn't take "a job that had removed all the institutional barriers". He took the job on the condition that those institutional barriers be removed. We need to give him credit for that. Without Jones, is it 30, 35 or 40 years before things changed and we go to a crappy bowl?

And I think Jones probably could have managed 1 or two wins a year (Rice, Tulane, Houston, TCU, and Arkansas all had some rather mediocre teams during that decade), but that's all speculation.

But Jones had something Cavan and Rossley didn't, and that's a National Coach of the Year award, the biggest turnaround in NCAA history under his belt, and 25 years of frustrated alumni backing him up. It's not apples-to-apples because Jones forced the institution to change. He flat out would never have come here under the restrictions Cavan and Rossley had to work under. That was made perfectly clear to Turner and Orsini. And that's why I think Rebel 10's statement is so ignorant. He either would have changed the system or he wouldn't have coached here. Never mind the fact that in the '90s June was coaching in the NFL.

As an aside, in the late '90s and early '00s when Jones was coaching Hawaii, I don't think he ever lost to the Mustangs. So that kinda undermines Rebel's assertion a little bit too.

You are pathetic. Coach Bennett said in his parting words some of the barriers that needed to removed and they were before Jones ever coaches a game. Any coach that came here after Bennett would have been under less restrictions. Stop the reconstructionist history. Yes, June should have beat SMU at Hawaii because his restrictions were so low that he could bring in convicted criminals to Hawaii. He should have beaten SMU. Jones came to SMU for the money. Face it, we hired a mid level mercenary that really does not want to be here and now we are having to deal with it.

[Rebel10]

One of the coaches that needs some real credit is Coach Shumate for somehow getting SMU to an NCAA tournament with all of the restrictions fully in place.

[78pony]

Rebel 10 and Stallion, two thumbs up.

On a different note, I usually average watching 1+ practices a week. Saw two the past two weeks and must say, yuck. I don't know what Phillips thinks he's doing with WR's throwing them high, over the shoulder bullets from about 4 yards, but he can't put the ball where he wants and the whole drill seems to be a waste of time and a downer (go back to the machine Reinboldt used why don't you). The 7 on 7 and especially the 11 on 11 sessions are, well, sad. QB's many times when looking downfield, ultimately end up dumping a flat or shallow crossing route for anywhere from 0-5 yards as WR's can't get open, or someone on the D has gotten in Gilbert's/QB's way (we don't go full speed you know) and by the time they move around to get to a throwing position everyone has just kind of given up on the play. To me it's the ultimate play like you practice scenario. Time to end the jones charade.

[MustangStealth]

But Jones had something Cavan and Rossley didn't, and that's a National Coach of the Year award

Mat Doherty had one of those too. Big whoop.

[MustangStealth]

But Jones had something Cavan and Rossley didn't, and that's a National Coach of the Year award

Mat Doherty had one of those too. Big whoop.

To emphasize: 2 of the last 6 Coach of the Year winners (using the one endorsed by the CFB Hall of Fame) have been fired from those jobs. That award is a paperweight.