Level Field

[mrydel]

I do not read the recruiting reports often since we have Stallion et al that provide the information for people as lazy as I. This morning though I did visit the "free" Rivals report and looked at the recruits committed to the CUSA teams. If you get a chance, look at SMU and then look at UTEP. We have one 2 star JC player who according to Rivals has not yet signed, but I think earlier reports indicated he had signed and is in school now. UTEP has virtually rebuilt a defense with JC signings. They have already signed 3 LBS, 2 DBs, and 1 DT. All are rated higher than any of our recruits (with the possible exception of Josh R). They are signed and I assume in school and ready to contribute. We have needed this type of help in the past, we need this kind of help now, and we will need this type of help in the future and it truly irks me that we are not about to recruit on the same basis as our competition. I am certain that UTEP is not getting all of these guys and we are merely not convincing them to come to SMU. The restrictions need further loosing (I realize some progress has been made) if we are to be competitive.

[mr. pony]

Not sure.

Players want to go where they'll be noticed. The Sun Bowl is regularly packed. It's the only game in town.

Our attendance is one of the worst in the league.

[mrydel]

These are not local El Pasoans and they are very well used to playing in front of small crowds in JC, and they are not the only players available in the country. If we could bring them in, I am sure there are one or two that would be interested in the small town of Dallas.

[mr. pony]

More people will watch them and cheer for them in the Sun Bowl.

You make my point. That's part of the attraction for JCs - they've played for small crowds are looking for something more.

I think our goal should be winning while keeping standards above average, at least. Dallas is an easy sell over El Paso, but not with a 3/4- empty stadium.

[Original Frank]

Agree entirely. As towns go, no one would pick El Paso over Dallas and, as educations go, no one would pick UTEP over SMU. That reduces it to football teams. UTEP has clearly had greater recent success that has SMU. Looking at football only (and let's admit that most JUCO transfers are less interested in the quality of education and future employment opportunites than they are interested in football results, TV, and bowl games) it would seem that they are migrating in the manner we should all expect.

I submit that at least some JUCOs would likely see SMU as an enhanced opportunity and I believe the reasons they don't come here are (a) the loss of transferable credits and (b) the lack of athlete-friendly majors.

SMU is simply not a JUCO-friendly place and I would not expect that to change any time soon.

[Mexmustang]

I think all of you have valid points: crowd, history of success, coaching reputation, admissions, etc. One other point that I am enthusiastic about is getting some "traction" from somewhere. What I mean is having some visable athletic success from somewhere. It doesn't have to initially be football. One successful program can give the entire campus a feeling that things are starting to turn around. I feel the success of women's basketball at Baylor and the success of Rice's baseball team helped them in football recruiting as much as any single component, save for coaching. We simply haven't had any success in any sport--even soccer has proven to be a "deflated balloon" given the expectations vs. performance last year. But our basketball program is turning around faster than anyone could have expected. I believe we can really begin to take pride in the program in a very short period of time--if not already. Even this year, this team viewed by some at the beginning of the year, as "leftovers" from a losing program, has proven it can learn to be successful. I think in short order this team is going to be a giant killer in one or two games, will they disappoint? maybe, but Coach Doh is a winner and if we can provide him the resources (including pay) he is going to start the entire athletic department on a winning program!

[Mickey]

I think all of you have valid points: crowd, history of success, coaching reputation, admissions, etc. One other point that I am enthusiastic about is getting some "traction" from somewhere. What I mean is having some visable athletic success from somewhere. It doesn't have to initially be football. One successful program can give the entire campus a feeling that things are starting to turn around. I feel the success of women's basketball at Baylor and the success of Rice's baseball team helped them in football recruiting as much as any single component, save for coaching. We simply haven't had any success in any sport--even soccer has proven to be a "deflated balloon" given the expectations vs. performance last year. But our basketball program is turning around faster than anyone could have expected. I believe we can really begin to take pride in the program in a very short period of time--if not already. Even this year, this team viewed by some at the beginning of the year, as "leftovers" from a losing program, has proven it can learn to be successful. I think in short order this team is going to be a giant killer in one or two games, will they disappoint? maybe, but Coach Doh is a winner and if we can provide him the resources (including pay) he is going to start the entire athletic department on a winning program!

Agree with you 100%. That is why this is an important season for basketball. A decent season will allow us to get better recruits and then Doherty will be off and running. this in-turn could jump start the fans and the other sports.

[Longtime]

Signing a lot of jucos makes sense in the short term but can leave you in a lurch in the long term.

First, jucos have to come in ready to start immediately. If a juco needs a year of seasoning, then you've basically signed a guy for one year. That's not a good use of a scholarship.

Second, when a wave of jucos uses up their eligibility at the same time, what do you have to replace them? Underclassmen who have never played? Usually, you have to go get another bunch of jucos and hope they pan out. Churning a football roster every two years makes for an unstable program.

The best programs rely on high school recruiting and use jucos for spot needs. That's the method SMU is currently employing and, in the long run, I think it's the best route.

Anecdotally, recruiting jucos is risky because so many of them come in with academic and discipline problems. There's a reason they went the juco route in the first place. You recruit a lot of jucos, you better be willing to put up with a lot of off-field nonsense.

And it's getting harder to recruit jucos. NCAA academic standards are making it tougher for them to get eligible for D-I. And everyone has jumped on the juco bandwagon. Juco players aren't content to play at Kansas State any more. Major programs that are a lot more attractive than Manhattan, Kansas, are coming after them now. Big-time BCS programs are cherry-picking the best jucos, so I wonder what UTEP is really getting.

So in short, don't be alarmed if other teams are re-stocking with jucos en masse. A lot of jucos never pan out. They look great going against other jucos, but against D-I competition, not so much. I can't tell you how many juco all-american QBs, RBs and WRs have turned out to be duds in D-I. Some have made the leap to the next level, but for many it's like the difference between JV and Varsity.

[jtstang]

Our attendance is one of the worst in the league.

Why do you think that is?

[mrydel]

Please explain how we have made good use of JUCOs by signing 1 a year. And a 2 year JUCO does not need a year of seasoning if you select him properly. And while the JUCO is playing you are following him with an undergrad player that will replace him when he is gone.

I am not advocating stocking up on JUCOs. I am merely pointing out why we are continually getting our butts beat year in and year out. For instance, we have a decent sized hole at DT. We had filled that with a JC player, but he has now moved on. We did not recruit well enough to have a large enough number of current recruits to fill the void. Would you actually be upset if we brought in another Adrian Haywood? We need to wake up to reality. UTEP had a defensive problem this past year, and I feel certain you are going to see a tremendous improvement based on their signings.

And, 3 or 4 JUCOs are not going to water down the prestige of a degree from SMU. All I am saying is allow us to recruit the same players that UTEP, Memphis, ECU, UCF and others are. We may want them, we may not, but at least give us the chance to compete.

And if you wonder what kind of JUCOs UTEP is getting, they are all rated higher than anyone we have committments from with the possible expection of Josh R.

[EastStang]

The places where JUCO's make the most sense is at places like wideout, cornerback and on the lines. Running backs and Quarterbacks need to grow with the system. Linebackers and safeties again need to be more aware of schemes than linemen and corners and probably should grow more with the system. Clearly, we add JUCO's on an ad hoc as needed basis. Are JUCO players out there better than the players already on your roster ready to play? If the answer is "No", then why add them except for depth and using them for depth might cause a younger player to develop slower. There are lots of pros and cons to JUCOs. Coach Bennett's philosphy seems to be that JUCO's are added when necessary.

[mrydel]

Coach Bennett's philosphy seems to be that JUCO's are added when necessary.

That is just not true. We have had plenty of needs in the past 5 years and we have not added JUCOs and it is not because he has not wanted to but rather because he has not been able to. The QB for Troy was a good example. I am glad Willis worked out well this year, but we wanted that QB and we could not get him in. (I have no verifiable proof of that but that is the word I have heard.) I am not asking for the world. Just some guys to fill in the blanks in both FB and BB. A coach with any sense knows all the arguements you guys are throwing out. They know you want to build with recruits, but if you can not get a quality recruit at a position that you need help in right now, fill it with a JUCO. Only we can not get the ones we wanted admitted. Boy I wish we had an experienced skilled point guard and a scorer on our BB team. Oh well I guess we can keep saying wait until next year.

[Mickey]

Signing Jucos allow teams to:
1. Balance out classes
2. Fill holes at certain positions due to attrition or injury
3. Address a bad recruiting year 2 to 3 years earlier at some positions.

This is vital to staying competitive.

[mrydel]

Signing Jucos allow teams to:
1. Balance out classes
2. Fill holes at certain positions due to attrition or injury
3. Address a bad recruiting year 2 to 3 years earlier at some positions.

This is vital to staying competitive.

How come you did not use as many words as I did to say that?

[Pony in Dawg Land]

Let's put this in video game terms. SMU has four things to sell: Location, Academics, Playing Time, and possibly Coaching Style. Program Prestige and Coach Prestige are virtually out of the picture. Unfortunately, 17 year old kids dream of the 'big time.' This includes a reputable program with a reputable coach and large fan support. Big time athletes (3 stars or higher) go to programs to enhance their athletic skill set to foster the hopes of the NFL.
JUCOs allow programs to bring in experienced talent that have flown under the radar but are able to contribute immediately. Why SMU hasn't ammended certain admissions requirements to allow for this escapes me. We say 'top 25' but when it comes to transfers and JUCOs, we sure don't act like it.

I hope that made sense, maybe not...