what are we joining?

[Hoop Fan]

Sounds like South Florida, Central Florida and East Carolina might all be going Big East. If that happens, I doubt Marshall leaves the MAC. Thats not good news but its not all bad either. I would rather any of those schools go east than see Memphis leave CUSA. Memphis is a key school that makes CUSA more than just a regional bus league. The following is a good 9 school core for a long time: Memphis, Tulane, S Miss, UAB, Tulsa, TCU, SMU, Rice, and Houston. You could stop there if you had to, but 12 is ideal to me for a championship football game. Over time you get 3 more schools from the following realistic options, some might come and go: South Florida, Central Florida, Marshall, East Carolina, La Tech, Army and Navy. I really like the idea of an affiliation with Army and Navy as associate members or something. If the academies are good enough for Notre Dame to play consistently, they're good for us.

[SMUstang]

Hoop Fan, I don't know where you got your information but I seriously doubt that all 3 would go to the BE. I wouldn't expect ECU especially to be invited. And UCF would likely be a football only invite which I'm not sure they would choose over an all sports invite from C*USA.

Assuming you are correct, then C*USA would be down to 6 members and only 5 that have played together for at least 5 years. So basically you might as well be starting over as a new league except for whatever Bowl relationships might remain. Barring any further defections, you would be left with Memphis, So. Miss, UAB, Houston, TCU, Tulane. Plus Tulsa, SMU, Rice. Not a bad league. But if you wanted to go to 12 you could choose from: UNT, La Tech, UTEP, La. Laf., NMSU. With Army and Navy as Associate Members. Again not too shabby and far more regional than a league that includes ECU and Marshall.

But how would the provisional invites to Tulsa, SMU, Rice, Marshall, and UCF be affected if USF, UCF, and ECU left?
Would that negate the deal? Would the 3 schools stay in the WAC? Would they form a new SWC? or press on with a different CUSA than was expected?

I agree with you that Memphis is a key school.

<small>[ 10-22-2003, 12:21 PM: Message edited by: SMUstang ]</small>

[Hoop Fan]

Its no sure thing, but I think UCF would leave for a football only offer from the Big East. As for the others, I guess UNT would be the one I left off that I could see being included. Utep and NMState are just too far west for a league with Memphis, So Miss and Tulane. I suppose they could be part of the Texas division, but to do that you would have to send Tulsa and Tulane to the East division. From SMU perspective, I would hate to trade annual games with Tulane and Tulsa for Utep and NMState. As for La Lafayette, I don't see it. Not that we can turn our nose up at anybody right now, but geez they seem bush league.

[Southland]

Key dates

11/4: Big East Conference meetings
11/5: Big East invites expected
11/6: Big East acceptances expected
11/6: CUSA official invites expected
11/7: CUSA acceptances expected

Also in November, the Atlantic 10 is expected to invite St.Louis and Charlotte.

As of now, no MWC meetings are scheduled. In a release last month, Craig Thompson did announce that his Presidents had approved exploring expansion. However, in the next sentence he doubted the Presidents would broach the subject until the official vote on Championship football games (official vote is April 29, 2004).

Speculation is that the WAC would attempt to expand to 12 (from 7) by that April vote, and replace any members they lose to the Mountain West over the summer.

[Matt97]

It looks like USF will get an all sports invite to the Big East. They are going to have to crunch some numbers to see if they will be able to accept it(they are still paying entrance fees to C-USA + C-USA exit fees + Big East entrance fees). The BCS is starting to show some *****s in its armor. More and more it is looking the BCS system might not exist past 2005. The Senate Judicial Committee will be holding a hearing on the BCS on Oct 29th. Tulane's Pres. Cowen and Levell Edwards will represent the non-BCS schools. Access to the BCS would be the major reason for USF jumping to the Big East. BCS money would bankroll their move. With that bankroll being in question, would USF still make that jump? Why would they if it looks like C-USA and the Big East are going to be on equal footing? Without the BCS the move will not make financial strength. With that said... the Bulls may throw all sense out of the window and accept anyway.

ECU on the other hand is a more goegraphic fit for the Big East. Finances would not be a problem for the Pirates. Travel expenses would be less than what they are currently in C-USA. ECU would jump regardless of the BCS. Another scenerio being rumored is that ECU would get a football only invite. Its anybodies guess which direction ECU would go if that were to occur.

UCF? The Big East is looking at UCF as a football playing member only. Are they willing to sacrafice their other sports for a shot at bigtime football? Again... How bigtime will the Big East be without the BCS.

With all of that said... Here is what I am hearing. DePaul and Marquette will accept invites to the Big East for all sports but football. Cincinnati & Louisville will accept invites for all-sports including football. USF will get an invite to the Big east for all-sports. They will only accept if the financial numbers work out (The possible abolition of the BCS and/or the possibility of the Big East losing their seat at the table will make them hink twice). Either ECU, UCF, Navy or Army will likely get an invite for football only. ECU will get an all-sports invite only if USF declines their invitation. Charlotte and St. Louis will defect to the A-10.

[SMUstang]

Hoop Fan, I'm not saying I favor UTEP and NMSU over Tulane and Tulsa. Far from it. I just don't see UCF and ECU leaving for the BE (my opinion).

My preference would be the 9 team league consisting of the 6 CUSA schools and the 3 EWAC schools. That would be the most "regional" league we could have. ECU, UCF, and Marshall still require a lot of travel.

[Matt97]

Originally posted by Southland:
Key dates
11/4: Big East Conference meetings
11/5: Big East invites expected
11/6: Big East acceptances expected
11/6: CUSA official invites expected
11/7: CUSA acceptances expected

You left out one key date...

10/29: The US Senate Judiciary Committee will have a hearing on the BCS.

"Tulane President Scott Cowen, who is a key BCS critic, confirmed Monday that he has been asked unofficially to appear, along with former Brigham Young football coach LaVell Edwards. Nebraska Chancellor Harvey Perlman said he's expecting an invitation to testify on behalf of the BCS."

October 21, 2003


NOTICE OF FULL COMMITTEE HEARING

The Senate Committee on the Judiciary will hold a hearing on Wednesday, October 29, 2003, at 10:00 a.m. in Room 226 of the Senate Dirksen Office Building on "BCS or Bust: Competitive and Economic Effects of the Bowl Championship Series On and Off the Field."

Chairman Hatch will preside.

By order of the Chairman

Orin Hatch will have no sympathy for the BCS cartel. Neither will Leahey. What goes on there may or may not affect the decision process of some of the schools involved.

[Hoop Fan]

Thanks Matt, that makes alot of sense. I would think ECU would get the football only invite over UCF, but maybe not. If ECU leaves do you think Marshall will still come to CUSA? I don't. In any case, I hope you guys land somewhere you like, hopefully that will be CUSA-East with Marshall, UCF, Memphis, UAB, and Southern Miss. Thats a pretty good football division. I think SMU will eventually be a force in the West with Houston and TCU.

[Water Pony]

For clarity sake, BE is not going to take any FB only schools. UCF would be CUSA candidate, not BE. They have learned their lesson with partial participants, e.g. BB schools.

As for ECU, they are probably going stay in CUSA. Beyond taking USF, BE won't need another school at this time.

[OldPony]

Beyond all the speculation, why is Memphis the key to keep this from being a "bus" league. Memphis has little football tradition, is primarily a suitcase college and has little community support. Academically, it is very undistinguished. They can ride the bus to S. Miss, UAB and Tulane as easily as we could to Houston, Tulsa and Tulane. Memphis has a tradition of very good basketball but not much else. They play in a city that cares about U of Ark, Ole Miss, Miss St, Ala, and U of Tenn (sound familiar sports fans?). About all they have going for them is that in football and basketball, they are better than we are but they are no more a key than S. Miss, Tulane and less of one than TCU. .

[Matt97]

Originally posted by Hoop Fan:
Thanks Matt, that makes alot of sense. I would think ECU would get the football only invite over UCF, but maybe not. If ECU leaves do you think Marshall will still come to CUSA? I don't. In any case, I hope you guys land somewhere you like, hopefully that will be CUSA-East with Marshall, UCF, Memphis, UAB, and Southern Miss. Thats a pretty good football division. I think SMU will eventually be a force in the West with Houston and TCU.

Hoopfan - C-USA has been great to us at ECU. Remember that geography is driving ECU's Big East ambitions as much as anything else. But if we don't get in for whatever reason... We will be happy in C-USA. If the Pirates bolt for the Big East, I don't think that Marshall will be coming. Unless... Ohio or Toledo can also be coaxed to the Conference as well. UCF is coming to C-USA if they do not get a Big East invite.... Take that to the bank. If ECU gets a football only invite? We will only accept if a suitable basketball conference would take us. That would only be temporary in the minds of our administration. Eventually they would make their move to an all-sports member.

I agree with you about SMU, Houston, and TCU becoming regional powers. That is a potent triumverant. You recruiting will become better and better as your rivalries redevelope with conference play. I have said it once... I will say it again. SMU has everything in place to make its move (location, facilities, pedigree). Its only a matter of time in C-USA. Good Luck going forward.

ECU could be in a lot worse places than in C-USA with SMU and company. Big East? C-USA? We will be fine either way.

[Hoop Fan]

OP, couple things. First of all, they are a big time basketball program. They routinely fill a 17,000 seat stadium when they are good. They also draw pretty well in football, 40,000 if I am not mistaken. In football, they are the only game actually in town, in a fairly large market. They don't compete with the Dallas Cowboys. If they succeed, they will generate alot of cash and attention. Locationally, they provide a balance for the league geographically. Not to say other schools aren't important, but they are one that helps make CUSA attractive to SMU and everybody else.

[Matt97]

Originally posted by Water Pony:

For clarity sake, BE is not going to take any FB only schools. UCF would be CUSA candidate, not BE. They have learned their lesson with partial participants, e.g. BB schools.

As for ECU, they are probably going stay in CUSA. Beyond taking USF, BE won't need another school at this time.

Don't be so sure about the football only invite. A nine member football conference is much better than eight for scheduling purposes (4 homes and 4 aways).

And about the Big East learning their lesson? That did not happen. It will be at least a 16 team conference with 8 hoops members and 8 football members. If they had learned their lesson they would have split and gone to a 9-12 team all sports conference. The hoops schools would have their own 9-10 team conference.

I think you are right about ECU, however. My gut tells me that we are not going anywhere for the time being.

[Southern Miss Alum]

South Florida is gone. I feel certain that East Carolina is staying and that Marshall is coming. I also feel fairly confident that Central Florida is coming as well.

UCF - outside of the Culpepper years - has not distinguished itself in football. Based on that, why not just maintain Temple as the football-only member? It makes much more sense geographically.

[FloridaMustang]

The BE will take Cincy, Louisville, and USF for all sports. C-USA will add SMU, Tulsa, Rice, Marshall, and UCF for all sports (except for maybe men's soccer) to get to 12 full members. Remember, CUSA will actually be losing 4 football members with the departure of Army.

The BE and other conferences will probably pick off the rest of the BB schools. Stop reading into everything. This thing has already been decided and isnt as complicated as some people make it out to be.