The Arlington Cowboys

[gostangs]

Don't kid yourself - they will lose a ton of regualr fans - it is significantly farther for the vast majority of their current customers - they may pick some new ones - but it will be a net loss. Granted - weekend games will not be as hard for the Cowboys as weeknights are for the rangers, but inconvenience is never good for any business.

The rangers are having a good attendence year because they are in the race - compared to other teams in the race their attendnce is poor. Granted weekend games will help that situation -

When the rangers are not in the race they lose millions of dollars annually because they picked the wrong location for the LONG TERM - although it was a shrewd money maker for the then owners.

[jtstang]

All of you bashing Laura Miller and the City of Dallas need to take a step back and realize that the entirety of the negotiations with the Cowboys was handled by Dallas County through the Commissioner's Court. So look to Margeret Keliher, et al., if this bothers you, and leave the mayor and city council out of the bashing for once.

And for those suggesting that the city should sue over the use of the name, don't be ridiculous.

[Mike Damone]

If you take the 'Dallas' out of the Dallas Cowboys, who does that hurt more? The Cowboys or the city of Dallas?

I acknowledged that, but all you are really looking for is leverage. Its probably an idle threat... until you have some backing to petition the NFL for an expansion franchise actually in Dallas. The city government of Dallas is too inept to make it happen, but its too bad Tom Landry or Tex Shramm are no longer around to lend their name to an effort.

HF- I always appreciate your arguments even when I don't agree.

The Cowboys can have the same leverage. If you're going to take away the Dallas in their name, they can threaten to leave the area all together. The NFL is dying to get another franchise in LA, and a city like San Antonio would certainly go for it, with a built in fan base already there. You want to see anarchy in this city, sue the Cowboys over a silly name, and cause them to leave the area all together. Sure the 10 SMU fans that seem to think we're a legit alternative to the most popular sports franchise in the nation may think its great, but 99.9% of the population won't feel that way.

Also, I'm sure Dallas could find a replacement, but the city will end up getting screwed even more. They'll end up like Houston or Cleveland. Those cities refused to build new stadiums and their teams left. Then they ended up giving up way more than was wanted by the original franchises in order to get a new one to come in. Plus, you;d lose many fans that would never return to root for the Dallas _______?.

They haven't been in Dallas in years, they've been in Irving. Sure its Dallas county, but its not in the city. It wasn't the end of the world when they moved then, and it won't be now.

As far as being an inconvenience, Arlington won't be. The current location is an inconvenience. Once you get within a mile of the stadium, there is standstill traffic that you sit in for at least 30 minutes. I guarantee that from downtown Dallas, the drive door-to-door will be pretty much the same. Add that it will be in the nicest stadium in the NFL, and the fans will still come in flocks.

[Hoop Fan]

All of you bashing Laura Miller and the City of Dallas need to take a step back and realize that the entirety of the negotiations with the Cowboys was handled by Dallas County through the Commissioner's Court. So look to Margeret Keliher, et al., if this bothers you, and leave the mayor and city council out of the bashing for once.

And for those suggesting that the city should sue over the use of the name, don't be ridiculous.

Don't try to suggest the city had nothing to do with the process. They did. If they backed away from the negotiation or chose to partner with the county, then maybe that was the root of it. Still can be called a failure. Did the city have the right to negotiate with Ross Perot Jr. but not Jerry Jones? Hardly the case. If the city had nothing to offer economically, then we are right back to the same place of overall leadership. Now, I will concede, maybe this is what the City of Dallas wanted to happen all along. Maybe they never intended to ANY kind of a deal after the Perot/Victory dispute. I wouldnt doubt it. Maybe they figure Dallas can leverage off of the taxpayers of Arlington and having the team locally doesnt really matter to Dallas's status as a world class city, maybe Arlington is close enough. All plausible, but forgive me if I am skeptical of the decision making over at City Hall. The track record isnt good.

[jtstang]

Look, I don't know why the county handled the negotiations and not the city--if you want the answer, do a little research yourself--I just know that is the way it went down. I suspect the Cowboys picked their partner--that they wanted to negotiate with the county anticipating difficulties with the city, but that's just my guess.

[Hoop Fan]

Damone, I agree with alot of that, but I dont think the Cowboys threatening to go to LA is a viable threat at all. The Los Angeles Cowboys? Jones would be giving up alot the brand value that he is a whore too. Lots of franchises can move anywhere they want, but there are ones that would cut their own throat by doing so and the Cowboys are one. I am not saying that Jones is making a bad business decision by going to Arlington. I do think it might be short term thinking, but nevermind that, I am coming from the Dallas angle. Does Dallas want to be a world class city or not? What things are worth fighting for and establishing? I'd say having a vibrant downtown is one of them. And about the only chance downtown Dallas has left is the Cowboys. We can argue all day long about the direct economic impact, which is the reason Miller and the Council probably dont intend to do a deal after being burned before, but most people realize indirect benefits are where a deal is made. Dallas needs something, anything around downtown. How can you let the Dallas Cowboys get away?

[Hoop Fan]

Look, I don't know why the county handled the negotiations and not the city--if you want the answer, do a little research yourself--I just know that is the way it went down. I suspect the Cowboys picked their partner--that they wanted to negotiate with the county anticipating difficulties with the city, but that's just my guess.

JT, not to argue with you, but I didnt ask you for the answer. I assumed the City "punted" the deal. Your suggestion that the Cowboys avoided negotiating with the city altogether anticipating difficulties is just as damning or moreso. Basically, Dallas's negotiating ability is so poor that we dont even get a shot at the deal ourselves? Good grief, thats my point.

[jtstang]

All I am saying is the city had nothing at all to do with these negotiations, probably contrary to their own wishes, so your obviously predisposed disdain for the mayor and city council is misplaced in this instance. That's all. I don't want to argue with you either, but facts is facts, at least the ones made public.

[abezontar]

What exactly are the indirect benefits of having the cowboys downtown? There was an article recently in the DMN about the economic impact of the Ballpark in Arlington, and the city was at a loss to describe what real benefit they had gotten from having the ballpark in their city. Now I know there is a prestige thing, but I am hard pressed to support the construction of a new stadium when the ballpark hasn't brought what was promised, neither has the AAC, and I would be willing to bet that most new stadiums don't end up creating as much as promised. The only ones that I can think of that have created the type of development the city wants are Wrigley Field in Chicago and Fenway Park (from what I remember). Both have a lot of clubs/restraunts/shopping in and around the area that are there in large part because of the stadium. In my opinion if Jones or any other team wants a new stadium they need to build it without taxpayer money, if they want they can partner and the taxpayers can fund development around the stadium, but the stadium which will be a revenue draw for the team but not the taxpayers needs to be funded by those who will really benefit, the owners.

side note: ( I believe that the reason the negotiations were with the county dealt in large part because of the Fair Park site. There was something about the ownership of Fair Park that made the Cowboys have to deal with the county.)

[jtstang]

side note: ( I believe that the reason the negotiations were with the county dealt in large part because of the Fair Park site. There was something about the ownership of Fair Park that made the Cowboys have to deal with the county.)

Thanks for that clarification. Now that you mention it, I think that may be the answer. And good post otherwise--I've always thought having the public help the rich get richer made no sense at all.

[PK]

Let see here, the City puts up $325 million and in return they get $2 million a year in rent and 5% of the naming rights contract not to exceed $500 thousand a year for 30 years. Thats $90 million they get back for their $325 million investment. Also, nobody is talking about the interest that has to be paid on the $325 million in bonds the City will have to sell and believe me that won't be peanuts. I may be wrong, but I think the $650 million price tag includes the Jerry World development that is suppose to go along with the stadium...much like the Victory Development that was part of the AA Center. So the stadium gets built at the City's expense and due to economic conditions, Jerry World doesn't get built...much like the Victory Development. A sucker truely is born every day. Have fun Arlington.

[Water Pony]

As a an old Cowboys fans from the sixties and their home games at Fair Park, as well as an out-of-stater; what move is being discussed by Jerry and the team. Are they threatening to move to Arlington next to the BallPark?

Didn't hear what triggered this thread.

[jtstang]

In the interest of full disclosure, I went back and looked at some old DMN articles. As I said, all formal negotiations were with the county, not the city. However, I did see a quote from Laura Miller saying that were the city of Dallas to woo the Cowboys it would offer substantially less cash than what Arlington is proposing.

For the record, I do not have a problem with that. And I think Dallas is a "world-class city" regardless of the whims of Jerry Jones and Laura Miller.

[LA_Mustang]

Then after the Fair Park/Dallas County dealings failed, why didn't the city of Dallas step up and make something happen with the Industrial site? If they would have approached Jerry and Steven and said lets make this happen, it could have worked.

They had an opportunity to get the Rangers back in '93 and passed and now they are passing on the Cowboys. Bottom line is the city of Arlington is proactive and Dallas isn't. I blame it on the constant infighting that goes on at City Hall and the fact that there is not a "leader" in Dallas government. And I'm not blaming Laura Miller because she is a victim of the system. The mayor and city manager having equal power just doesn't work.

If you noticed in the Arlington/Cowboy negotiations, their mayor, Cluck, was the voice of the Arlington side. He stepped up and took a leadership roll in getting the Cowboys. No one in Dallas ever attempted to take that role. In ten years when Arlington hosts the world's biggest sporting event, the Super Bowl, and possibly the yearly UT/OU game, how is Dallas going to feel??

BTW, I am more upset at Dallas for losing the Rangers, because for a city that claims to be trying so hard to revitalize downtown its funny that no one had the foresight to bring 30,000+ people 81 days a year to downtown. Many of which would have came early and stayed late patronizing the business around the area.

[jtstang]

Let see here, the City puts up $325 million and in return they get $2 million a year in rent and 5% of the naming rights contract not to exceed $500 thousand a year for 30 years. Thats $90 million they get back for their $325 million investment. Also, nobody is talking about the interest that has to be paid on the $325 million in bonds the City will have to sell and believe me that won't be peanuts. I may be wrong, but I think the $650 million price tag includes the Jerry World development that is suppose to go along with the stadium...much like the Victory Development that was part of the AA Center. So the stadium gets built at the City's expense and due to economic conditions, Jerry World doesn't get built...much like the Victory Development. A sucker truely is born every day. Have fun Arlington.

Don't forget, PK, the Cowboy's option to buy back the staduim from Arlington in thirty years for $100M or something like that--I think they would get a refund of three decades rent or something like that if they exercise the option.