Estimated attendance for San Jose game?

[jtstang]

Did you check out the south end zone. Very full....not packed, but a good size croud there. I approached the Marketing Department on the day of the game for some extra tickets and they had none anywhere except in the south endzone grass

You shoulda bought some of those grass tix and sat in some of the couple of thousand no-shows' seats on the west side of the stadium.

Because I doubt the audited attendance numbers will ever be released, we can only rely on our eyes for estimates. The game was a sellout, but there were plenty of the usual no-shows.

Wake up, people! You can disbelieve if you want, but we are going to be on the attendance bubble under the new rules this year, if we don't start winning. Drag your family, friends and neighbors to the games!

[SWC2010]

Because I doubt the audited attendance numbers will ever be released, we can only rely on our eyes for estimates. The game was a sellout, but there were plenty of the usual no-shows.

Wake up, people! You can disbelieve if you want, but we are going to be on the attendance bubble under the new rules this year, if we don't start winning. Drag your family, friends and neighbors to the games!

Good point on the 'no-shows', JT. There was quite a few empty seats around us, as well. I know this does not apply to most on this board, but... Hey folks, if you can't make the game give the tickets to SOMEBODY. Let's keep the turnstyles movin' in Ford on Saturdays..

[mrydel]

SMU will not allow a division drop due to attendance. Bank it. There are ways to get around it. Louisiana Monroe played a "home game" in Little Rock this weekend against the University of Arkansas.They got to count the attendance as theirs. All Arkansas had to do was sign them up as a patsy and get them to agree that Arkansas did not have to go back to LA Monroe for a game. I am confident that our people are smart enough to figure a way to get 15,000 attendance if it became an issue.(yes I really am) This is a "falling sky" alert that is a non issue. The issue with attendance is building a team to a level that people want to come and see them play, period. Hopefully that will happen in my life time. (and I am old)

[jtstang]

SMU will not allow a division drop due to attendance. Bank it. There are ways to get around it. Louisiana Monroe played a "home game" in Little Rock this weekend against the University of Arkansas.They got to count the attendance as theirs. All Arkansas had to do was sign them up as a patsy and get them to agree that Arkansas did not have to go back to LA Monroe for a game. I am confident that our people are smart enough to figure a way to get 15,000 attendance if it became an issue.(yes I really am) This is a "falling sky" alert that is a non issue. The issue with attendance is building a team to a level that people want to come and see them play, period. Hopefully that will happen in my life time. (and I am old)

No disrespect to the elderly, but this is already an issue FOR THIS YEAR! It is too late to schedule Ark in LR this year, and we've had our Texas Tech visit. The rest of the way it's gonna be up to SMU fans, and if that gives you a warm fuzzy feeling then you probably just have gas. You can bury your head in the sand if you want, but at least go to NCAA.org and check out the revised by-laws before you accuse me of spreading panic or barking up the wrong tree. So far, "our people" have done nothing but have Copeland write about this issue once in his AD notes. Oh, and offer UP folks half price tix, as if the problem with getting UP folks to the game had anything to do with ticket prices. Look, I hope you're right and I'm proven wrong, and I may be, but it ain't gonna be by much if history is any indication.

[mrydel]

No disrespect taken or given. I just do not have your passion for worry on this subject. I am confident that the 15,000 average will be met and hope to high heaven that a program will develop so we do not have to ever have this subject come up again. Keep up the fight and maybe it will bring some more people in.

[jtstang]

I am confident that the 15,000 average will be met and hope to high heaven that a program will develop so we do not have to ever have this subject come up again.

While I don't necessarily share your confidence, I do share your hope.

[abezontar]

someone was telling me that for the butts in the seats rule the season ticket holders counted whether they were there or not, if the students technically count as season ticket holders than wouldn't that be at least 5k a game we are halfway there!!! (of course that is based on a big assumption and admittely I haven't read the by-laws)

[jtstang]

someone was telling me that for the butts in the seats rule the season ticket holders counted whether they were there or not, if the students technically count as season ticket holders than wouldn't that be at least 5k a game we are halfway there!!! (of course that is based on a big assumption and admittely I haven't read the by-laws)

That is not correct. Here are the relevant excerpts from by-laws:

20.9.6.3 Football-Attendance Requirements. [I-A] The institution annually shall average at least
15,000 in actual attendance for all home football games. (Revised: 4/25/02 effective 8/1/04)

20.9.6.3.1 Counting Attendance. For purposes of computing attendance figures, an individual
may be counted if any one of the following conditions applies: (Revised: 4/25/02, effective
8/1/04)
(a) Attendees are issued tickets that are collected upon admission to the game and retained;
(Revised: 4/25/02, effective 8/1/04)
358
(b) Attendees enter through and are counted by a turnstile that is monitored by a representative
of the department of athletics who verifies in writing the accuracy of the count on a per-game
basis; or (Revised: 4/25/02, effective 8/1/04)
(c) Attendees enter through a gate at which a representative of the department of athletics
counts them individually with a manual counter, and the representative provides a written
statement verifying the accuracy of the count on a per-game basis. (Revised: 4/25/02, effective
8/1/04)

20.9.6.3.3 Certified Audit. In meeting the football-attendance requirements of Division I-A, an
institution must undertake an annual certified audit verifying its football attendance. The
audit must be conducted by an outside auditing firm. The audited football actual-attendance
figures must be received in the NCAA national office not later than the February 15 following
the completion of the football season and NCAA national office staff shall verify compliance
with all Division I-A attendance requirements. The certified audit and materials (including the
ticket manifest) must be available for inspection for a four-year period. (Adopted: 1/10/92,
Revised: 4/25/02, effective 8/1/04)

[Diehard Pony]

Our biggest problem with respect to attendance is that the team has been painful to watch. While the Texas Tech game was encouraging, I have seen very few games in my life that was more painful to watch than the TCU game. I did not personally attend the OSU game, although I am guessing it was not much more attractive than TCU.

Really going back to the beginning of last season we have been difficult to watch because 13 points is an offensive explosion for us. Hopefully that will change Saturday because it is a particularly wicked combination (with respect to attendance) when you are losing and your offense is moribund.

[MustangStealth]

There are ways to get around it. Louisiana Monroe played a "home game" in Little Rock this weekend against the University of Arkansas.They got to count the attendance as theirs. All Arkansas had to do was sign them up as a patsy and get them to agree that Arkansas did not have to go back to LA Monroe for a game.

Usually in these situations Arkansas would also keep all gate receipts and season ticket holders still have dibs on their seats. All the patsy gets is the attendance numbers. Idaho and WSU have a standing arrangement like this.

As far as meeting minimum attendance requirements, we have 5 home games this year, so that means we only need a total of 75,000. We got half of that with Tech. I don't think we are in danger of getting <35000 in our last four games. That means each game would have to be less than 9000 people in attendance.

[PlanoStang]

I suppose we could still compete in the C-USA as a division 1-AA team. If not will the NCAA be required to buy out our membership contract with C-USA, and pay us our projected income for TV revenues, etc.?

[RGV Pony]

I recall some sort of 'probationary' period that will go into effect the first year a school doesn't get the 15k average. I suspect that there would also be appeals filed, injuctions filed for, or perhaps even a suit from the folks in legal to prevent such an occurence.

[jtstang]

I recall some sort of 'probationary' period that will go into effect the first year a school doesn't get the 15k average. I suspect that there would also be appeals filed, injuctions filed for, or perhaps even a suit from the folks in legal to prevent such an occurence.

That is not consistent with the following provision, and I cannot find it in the by-laws (although they are voluminous, and it could be in there):

20.9.6.5 Waivers [I-A]. There shall be no waivers to the Division I-A membership requirements
set forth in Bylaws 20.9.6.1 through 20.9.6.4. (Adopted: 4/24/03 effective 8/1/03)

This is serious business, folks.

[PK]

I think what some are refering to is the following article:

20.02.4 Restricted Membership.
Restricted membership is a membership classification status assigned to an institution that fails to comply with the minimum requirements of its division (e.g., sports sponsorship, scheduling). The institution placed in such status loses eligibility for a number of membership privileges and has from one year to three years to comply with the requirement involved. Failure to comply reclassifies the institution to corresponding membership (see Bylaw 20.3.5).

In other word, screwing up one year does not mean instant disassociation.

[jtstang]

Nice research, PK. Scary stuff, ain't it? And to be complete, it appears we would have one year to cure:

20.3.5 Noncompliance and Waivers of Division Criteria
20.3.5.1 Restricted Membership
20.3.5.1.1 Minimum One-Year Compliance Period. If an institution (or its sport per Bylaw
20.4) does not qualify for membership in any division, the institution (or its sport per Bylaw
20.4) may be placed in a “restricted membership” category for a minimum of one year. At the
conclusion of the minimum one-year period, the institution automatically shall be granted
membership in its preferred division, provided the institution complies with the division’s criteria.
If the member does not meet the criteria of any division at the end of the “restricted
membership” period, the member shall be reclassified as a corresponding member.

So it appears the elderly gent was right after all. This is not the year to panic, unless going on restricted membership bothers you. It's next year that clinches if we fail to make the minimum attendance this year. I do wonder what other membership privileges we would forfeit going on restricted status, but that research will have to fall to some other industrious pony fan.