Cookies Anyone?

[Stallion]

the Supreme Court within the last 3 months or so has ruled on the University of Michigan case and held by a wide majority including from the majority of Republican nominated Justices that race may be considered as one factor that can be considered in achieving diversity as long as there is no quotas. Most Supreme Court observers feel that this decision has now concluded the issue for the forseeable future. All Texas universities including SMU are in the process of conforming their admission policies to meet the new Supreme Court standards.

[SoCal_Pony]

I live in California, undeniable home of the best public university system in the world. Asians make up less than 10% of our state’s population, but over 35% of the student population at our top CA state schools.

Why are over 1/3 of the students in the best school system in the world Asian? Because schools base admission on factors other than test scores. If schools based admission solely on test scores, Asians would comprise ~70% of the student population at the top CA schools.

Think about that for a moment, less than 10% population yet over 70% representation at our very best schools. It is an impressive statistic and something our media fails to adequately report on.

There are 4 major ethnic groups in America. Affirmative Action actually penalizes our smallest ethnic group, Asians, more than it affects Whites.

For the record, the DMN reported that similar bake sales occurred at A$M and UT,
I personally support minority representation at all schools and this will be my one and only post on the subject.

[ponyboy]

Stallion, the Supreme Court got it wrong as Scalia will point out for you (or did Thomas write the dissent?) Quotas based on race are racist. Like Ken Pye's policies, the time for affirmative action -- if ever there was a time -- is long gone.

[ponyboy]

Actually, it was Rehnquist who wrote the dissent joined by Scalia, Kennedy and Thomas. Far from a "majority of Republican nominated justices."

[FloridaMustang]

I agree SoCal.. and I'm sorry if I hardly see it as hurting white students. If it has any impact, it's on the Asian population. Sure, affirmative action is not the greatest system and it's not perfect by any means, but diversity in our university system is still something to be strived for. I personally wish we could find a better system, but for god's sake, what is all the whining about? Things could be worse. We're supposed to be a melting pot of all races and cultures in America, but our institutions of higher learning are far behind the rest of the world as far diversity is concerned. In Europe and Australia, a system *similar* to affirmative action is used, but it's not politicized and no one even raises the issue like they would here in America. Yeah, stinks of socialism. Well, whatever, it works doesn't it? Schools like SMU with a huge white population are in dire need of diversity and if changing admission policies will help, then I'm all for it. Unfortunately, that will never happen in a state like Texas. Funny also how a uni like SMU, a school with some of the least politically active kids I have ever seen in my life gets publicity for this stunt. This is hardly outrageous or surprising, but SMU had it coming with its rep. Without diversity and without active political debate on campus, **** like this happens. It's beyond common sense.

ONE upside to this whole thing is that they only raised $1.50 (the sale was over pretty quickly I gather, though). Hopefully most students in their right mind at least found that bake sale a bit offensive. Or maybe no one was hungry.. plenty of starving girls out there on campus.. oh wait, I guess we shouldn't even get into the image obsession SMU kids have. That's taboo I suppose.

[This message has been edited by UNFMustang06 (edited 09-25-2003).]

[LA_Mustang]

What do you mean by "that will never happen in a state like Texas."

[PlanoStang]

Yep, that's what we need is a little socialism, communism, whatever you want to call it right here in the world of NCAA football, and all other sports. Especially, at big town private schools overwhelmed by
professional sports who are themselves next in line for the below edicts.

Effective October 1st all starting line-ups for all NCAA games will reflect the approximate percentage of races attending the competing schools. DIVERSITY is needed to truly teach the teaming nature of human beings to the athletic participants, as well as the non-participating college students attending the game.

Failure to comply will result in forfeiture of the game by the team in violation, but the game may continue for the enjoyment of those athletes that want to compete, and
the attendees that want to enjoy the game.

[EastStang]

Since we are all weighing in. Willis Tate let virtually every protest, festival, etc. go on at SMU. I think he cracked down on streaking, but only after it had gotten vogue. The gist of his views were that a University environment was the place were ideas were to be freely debated, discussed and challenged. I always felt that was one of the strengths of SMU. Regardless of your views, you could air them. By giving in to mob rule, the school gave the students a bad object lesson, that violence or its threat is an appropriate method for resolving disputes. The sad fact is that none of the students involved, black, brown or white, ever experienced or witnessed the Jim Crow racism of the mid 20th century. Martin Luther King advocated a raceless society. I thought we were making progress in that vein, but alas, those ghosts still remain.

[OldPony]

Has SMU got a problem anyway? Last weekend I saw many black students on campus and was surprised because when OP went were the days of Levias. What is the "minority" make up of SMU? What deserving students are being denied admission? I thought one of the factors that held SMU's reputation down was that most anyone could get in. Are we talking academic scholarships that some feel they were denied because of quotas? I was under the impression that if you were a top student and wanted to attend that scholarship help was available to all. One of the benefits of having a fairly large endowment was just that. Maybe OP is just denser than usual on this subject but the whole protest seemed contrived and pointless. Now- Back to ASPCA.....

[Duke Blue Blood]

SMU has a 66% acceptance rate.

[OldPony]

SMU is only 14% minority students and over 78% of all students get some form of financial assistance. With a 66% acceptance rate, it appears to me that these kids had little to protest. It sound like they just heard about something somewhere else that they thought was unfair and had little else to do. Again, immature, silly and , at least,the appearance of racism. Students- Please go to the game instead.

[ponyboy]

It was neither immature nor silly. They made a valid point in a way that garnered a lot of attention. The bake sale was shocking, but so is the concept that one human being might be put in line ahead of another just because of the color of his skin. It is not the case that racism only occurs when the color of person you prefer is not put first in line. Racism occurs when people are judged by the color of their skin rather than their abilities.

The bottom line is that liberal-leaning folks apparently don’t REALLY believe blacks can do it on their own. THAT’s racism. They’re just as capable as you or me. Putting a human being ahead of another for no other reason than skin color just deepens tragic racial divides.

Point well made by the bake sale.


[This message has been edited by ponyboy (edited 09-26-2003).]

[OldPony]

Disagree. Its like Barbra Streisand protesting guns when she has a body guard. If you want to go back to the days that SMU was all white because we didn't accept anyone who was different- go back without OP. These programs were necessary to give minorities a chance. I hope that someday that they won't be necessary but they still are today. The deck is still stacked against minorities in the workplace and if you look at gains (other than government and huge Companies that could be threatened), they have been small. At least with a good education, some of these minorities will build their own businesses since most small companies across the US are nearly all white still today.

[gostangs]

Agreed Ponyboy - and as for the concern about our image on this issue - one of the other universities that had a "bake sale" shut down was Berkley - not exactly the Mecca of conservatism.

While I am not sure fairness is the real reason affirmative action gets the criticism it does - it is unfair at its core - and would seem so to anyone who got passed over only due to skin color - it happens in every university in America every year, so it is a real issue to hundreds if not thousands of students.

[EastStang]

As I stated above, the issue is not whose position vis-a-vis quotas is correct, or whether SMU should admit students based upon a race based quota or diversity criteria, it is whether the University should have shut down a non-violent protest because others reacted violently.