The Model

[Dooby]

hey dooby....great post btw....
Stallion seems to think he's the only one that realized a team of Einstein's probably wont go 12-0

but dooby we hear we are on a level playing field now
i know things have changed for the better
but we're really no where near a level playing field are we?

because don't the kids we let in now but didnt used to...still have to pass SMU courses?
and doesn't SMU not yet offer Basket Weaving 101?

so a kid may get offered by Houston & SMU...but the kid may realize he can't "hide" at SMU in some Mobile Home Trailer Park Management class at SMU....

Ahhh... the old "SMU doesn't have Kinesiology, Education or Sports Management Degrees so SMU can't compete" argument.

Nonsense.

First, how many inner-city A&M players majored in Ag sciences? Do you think they cared?

Second, and I hate to hurt feelings here, but SMU ain't that hard. If Tiffany and Missy can do it, so can Joe Linebacker.

Third, the "clustering" of athletes around certain majors (pereceived as a problem in academic circles) already exists at SMU; three words: "Markets and Culture."

Oh, and I never said that SMU was now on a level playing field. I am not sure I believe that to be true.

[ozfan]

Were Kennemer and Dennis brought in by JJ or did they come during PB?

PB

[Insane_Pony_Posse]

"I hate to hurt feelings here, but SMU ain't that hard. If Tiffany and Missy can do it, so can Joe Linebacker"

ok dooby...i honestly did not really know....so you think a lot of those guys at say a Houston or TCU could pass the courses at SMU? if that's true that thats good and bodes for an even brighter future for us

[Dooby]

Very specific wording here: I believe most student-athletes at any major university could maintain their eligibility throughout their stay at SMU.

I believe SMU has had problems in the past because the LEC staff designated to ensure such things did a piss-poor job of it. Then the coaches learned they had to take proactive action to ensure their particular kids maintained that eligibility. I don't know, but I hope, this issue is fixed now.

[couch 'em]

ok dooby...i honestly did not really know....so you think a lot of those guys at say a Houston or TCU could pass the courses at SMU? if that's true that thats good and bodes for an even brighter future for us

If they are guided to the right majors and professors they could stay eligable if they put in the effort. There are plenty of avenues set up for rich kids who are dumb to come here and pay full tuition so the the rest of us can get scholarship to go to SMU.

[Dooby]

Exactly

[Insane_Pony_Posse]

ok thanks guys...i was worried a guy like LT at TCU could not have passed
the courses at SMU....then we really may be on a more even playing field than I realized.

[PonySnob]

The suggestion that Bennett was incapable of getting it done because of the "model" is one that Bennett himself was more than willing perpetuate, reaching its peak in his firing press conference. However, like everything Bennett ever said, there were some elements of truth to it, but it was mostly a lot of BS.

And that is why we pay June Jones $2M a year.

PB had just forgotten too much football.........................

[RedTapestry]

I'd be interested in a Stallion response to your posts here...though I am sure the ground has probably been trod many times over the years in the thousands of posts.

Are you able to elaborate on areas where, in your opinion, we are still not on even footing with our peers?

[Dooby]

Stallion and I agree on quite a bit. We tend to disagree around the edges of issues. I admit I have learned quite a bit from his posts over the years. I only really tweak off on Stallion because of his "abbrasiveness."

One area where SMU will never be competitive is regarding non-qualifiers/partial qualifiers. The kids that just don't qualify for a scholarship. Those kids might be able to get into some schools and they might be able to walk on and qualify for a scholarship at a later date. SMU's tuition makes that difficult. SMU tuition is always going to a detraction for walkons/preferred walkons and the like. That is just the breaks.

I also cannot definitively say what you have to do to get a scholarship at this school. And you are never going to get an answer from the University. And you are never going to see a kid's transcript. So there are some answers we are just never going to have.

And frankly there are some things SMU can do legally financially for its program and its student athletes that it just doesn't do. At SMU, there is always going to be money for the brick and mortar, but there is not an endless supply of money for the day to day stuff. Hopefully, if SMU starts winning, the money will come in better and those issues will resolve themselves.

[Insane_Pony_Posse]

"Are you able to elaborate on areas where, in your opinion,
we are still not on even footing with our peers?"

After reading these guys comments there may not be many....except I could see a situation where a 17 year old kid may think..."I'm going to the NFL anyway...if I go to UAB the classes will be easier than SMU and I could concentrate much more on football....but if I go to SMU i will have difficult classes and football to juggle". Dooby says the classes are not that hard at SMU but there has got to be some difference in difficulty in the degrees being offered at SMU and some of these other schools like Houston or UAB.....no? I'm not saying the kids couldn't do it, but sometimes a 17 year old may choose the easier route because he thinks "he's gonna be in the NFL anyway".

[Stallion]

I defined for myself the date I thought SMU was ESENTIALLY on an even competitive playing field by pledging to the Mustang Club in Spring 2007-I assure you I wouldn't have if there was not overwhelming evidence of that fact. For 10 years I said that's when I would join.

First, President Turner himself said on the date June Jones was hired something close to the effect that based on changes in admission standards SMU could now get in all recruits who were eligible under minimum NCAA qualification standards. I may be able to locate that statement but I believe it was on video of the press conference. The evidence is overwhelming since that he meant just what he said

Second, Dooby and I agree that it was sometimes difficult to tell exactly when those precise changes were made or the exact academic standards SMU was using from about 2003-2007 since SMU doesn't release academic records of recruits-however, general academic qualification standards are routinely discussed on Rivals and Scout and my position was that I would take a position based on actual proof by signing the exact players who are marginal NCAA qualifiers. Here's the proof:

Third, SMU signed more recruits last year who failed to qualify under NCAA minimum qualification standards than any school in Texas. At least 8 SMU recruits were not qualified on signing date-2 qualified after signing date and were admitted. One actually qualified after the start of fall practices. There is not a single report of one of those borderline recruits getting offers from another school which raises the presumption that they were not only not admissible to SMU but were not admissible to any NCAA school-otherwise they would have taken the offers. McNeil did not initially pass the courses he needed to admitted to SMU. SMU made an exception to get him in the back door. Marquis Frazier was a non-qualifier out of high school and did not graduate in time to attend spring practice. This year SMU has committed at least one recruit who has or at least had below a 2.3 GPA-which is a real longshot to qualify even if it were core.

Fourth, SMU in 2007 SMU signed both Alex Odiari and Deylon McElroy who were reported to be borderline qualifiers. Odiari it was reported initialy failed to meet NCAA standards during the summer (ie flunked) so he couldn't report during the summer and finally qualified in the second summer session. Deylon also didn't qualify until the last minute as in August days before the fall practices began. Despite this no other schools jumped on these recruits again raising the presumption that they were not admissible anywhere else.

Fifth, admissions to the SMU BB program provided perhaps some of the most compelling evidence in recent year. The roster including pipeline presently includes 4 Prep School-Dia, Kwiatowski, Walker, Leslee Smith, 4 JUCOs- Clinkscale(who it has been reported was a late qualifier), Luttman, Williams and the Belurus Kid and 1 -Division 1A Transfer Faye(who I believe was also a Prep). Professor X chronicalled the Bennie Rhodes saga-he bounced from school to school -I believe he predicted that there was no way that Rhodes would ever qualify for SMU. Faye flunked out of Georgia Tech and there were discussion all over the web that he couldn't qualify at any NCAA school because of very low grades. He made it.

The bottom line is that there has been no other SMU team that has been assisted by an influx of Division 1A Transfers, JUCOs, late qualifiers or minimum NCAA qualifiers that compares with the 2009 SMU team. I could care less what year it was accomplished, whether it was Turner, Copeland, Orsini, Bennett or Jones who deserves the credit. The proof I'm pointing to is in the puddin'. The only team that might come close is the 2006 6-6 team which was assisted by Bobby Chase and the JUCO DT Haywood. As I said as long as 10 years ago the day SMU has a competitive football program SMU's roster would be dotted with each of these categories of recruits significantly contributing to the team's success. That the identified recruits are significantly contributing to the success of the team can not be questioned based on the facts as this team has unfolded as outlined in the initial posts. SMU's entire athletic program has received an undeniable benefit from lowering its admission standards for all categories recruits.

[Billy Joe]

JJ said at the Monday lunch the week before the TCU game that 20 years ago TCU made a commitment to putting winning football teams on the field and they have basically ran the same system for 20 years and have done a good job of recruiting players that fit their system. SMU is now making that commitment TCU made. The next week I asked him what he meant about TCU making a commitment to winning and if SMU has made that same commitment. JJ said TCU has done a good job of getting players into school and that he believes SMU has made that same commitment. I have not yet heard about any players the coaches could not get into school that were admitted to other schools (N. Texas, Houston, UTEP, Okla. St., etc.).

[RedTapestry]

Thanks to both for expanding. Very informative.

[jtstang]

But those things also created a culture of losing that kept some coaches away and some recruits away as well, and eventually the fans, too.

This is the one thing that people tend to lose in the discussions about "the model", curriculum, transfer and juco credits, admissions, athletic tutoring and the like. In the last twenty years SMU has cultivated a reputation of a loser, and a culture to back the reputation. And if Dooby is right and the changes needed to get recruits were made in Bennett's time then it was nothing more than the reputation that kept us down. Players, real players, abhor a loser, and that's why they did not come to SMU.

Whether you like him or not, and frankly for me I am on the fence, Jones is the first coach we've hired since we came back from the death penalty who identified and made it his mission to eradicate the losing mentality from this program. Whether he will be successful remains to be seen, but everything else being equal, it should be a major focus and I give him credit for that.