SMU, TCU likely a package deal for big conferences

[PoconoPony]

May 16, 2010 6:52 pm PonyTales

I've read one scenario (don't remember where) that had SMU going to Big 12 and TCU getting left out. Don't remember why.

Before anyone worries about whether or not we get to hear the ping of the bat in college "baseball," I would think a more pressing need for the financial commitment that would be required for a conference shift would be a significant expansion of GJFord Stadium

Everyone keeps thinking only in terms of football and basketball with regard to conferences; however, the AD must also think in terms of all the "other" teams on campus both men's and women's. At this time our swimming teams have fallen on hard times for lack of adequate facilities and our years of top 10 finishes are at and end as we simply cannot recruit top kids with our facilities. We may need to expand Ford, but we would be remiss if a new natatorium is not built soon before the current facility literally falls apart. Colleges all over the country are dropping men's swimming to help compensate with needed funding of women's sports. SMU has also chosen different sports as equestrian and crew where few conferences compete. Why equestrian and crew instead of softball played by most major colleges???? In addition, there are considerable costs involved in the lesser non=revenue sports traveling for long distances for competition. Perhaps the future of the non-revenue sports is for each to have their own distinct conferences based on regional considerations thereby moving away from the traditional football/basketball conferences as in the past. Maybe the future is that SMU is a member of 6 or 7 different conferences. My main point is that changing conferences and/or forming a new conference is very complex and obviously comes down to what makes $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ sense.

[Water Pony]

May 16, 2010 6:52 pm PonyTales . . . .

At this time our swimming teams have fallen on hard times for lack of adequate facilities and our years of top 10 finishes are at and end as we simply cannot recruit top kids with our facilities. We may need to expand Ford, but we would be remiss if a new natatorium is not built soon before the current facility literally falls apart. Colleges all over the country are dropping men's swimming to help compensate with needed funding of women's sports.

I couldn't agree more that a new competitive pool is a high priority. If we are value this traditional and rich program, we can't continue to defer the replacement of Perkins Natatorium.

Here are my priorities:
- New Natatorium (plus new Band Hall)
- Renovate Moody
- New Lacrosse and Intramural Fields
- Expand Ford Stadium (complete the South End Zone, which brings it to 45k for our new, larger Conference Mates)
- Bring back Men's Track & Field
- Bring back Baseball and put their field east across Central Expressway.

[EastStang]

First, I don't think baseball is a requirement. Soccer is our "baseball". And to be honest, teams (think Big Ten-PAC 10) that honor soccer look at DFW soccer with some envy and would love to have inroads into that market which they currently only have by playing us on our terms in Dallas. We already have South Carolina and Kentucky (from the SEC) playing soccer in CUSA partly for that reason. I'll make froggiefever a deal though, when TCU adds men's soccer, we'll add men's baseball. Maybe we'll get a PAC10 invite?

[Water Pony]

First, I don't think baseball is a requirement. Soccer is our "baseball". And to be honest, teams (think Big Ten-PAC 10) that honor soccer look at DFW soccer with some envy and would love to have inroads into that market which they currently only have by playing us on our terms in Dallas. We already have South Carolina and Kentucky (from the SEC) playing soccer in CUSA partly for that reason. I'll make froggiefever a deal though, when TCU adds men's soccer, we'll add men's baseball. Maybe we'll get a PAC10 invite?

Not a bad idea, but Title IX would force comparable additions to Women's Programs, i.e. softball, lacrosse, etc. with large rosters. The result is a realization that the size of the respective Athletic Budgets would need to be significantly increased in order to be attractive member of a BCS conference, i.e. big leagues.

[EastStang]

Of course with BCS entry comes BCS $$$$. Note how Baylor can afford men's track, baseball, etc.

[deepellumfrog]

Of course with BCS entry comes BCS $$$$. Note how Baylor can afford men's track, baseball, etc.

TCU has mens track and baseball. I'd be surprised if TCU and SMU ended up in the same conference again, although I agree about neither school delivering the entire metroplex. Seems like the Big 12 already has DFW covered, so short of a mass exodus including Texas, that is unlikely. I suppose the Big East could take both if they lose more schools to Big 10, ACC, etc. If the SEC comes calling, I don't see them taking both, and I think TCU is more likely even though the chances of the SEC coming after another private school are pretty minute. Will be nothing if not interesting..

[smuuth]

I think basing conference alignment based on alumni in a particular area is a very small part of the equation. The question is can programs like TCU and SMU attract fans in large numbers from their local and regional areas and then national. I think that is why TCU has invested heavily in the past few years advertsing their frogs as "your hometown team" even though they don't recruit well in the metroplex. On the other hand SMU is still sticking with the "June Cometh" and "Pony Up" campaigns rather than going hard after the Dallas area market as "The" team for Dallas area fans. I think SMU is under the wrong impression that just winning games is enough to draw large crowds and market share. I say you have to make people feel that the mustangs are "their team".

[ponydawg]

I think basing conference alignment based on alumni in a particular area is a very small part of the equation. The question is can programs like TCU and SMU attract fans in large numbers from their local and regional areas and then national. I think that is why TCU has invested heavily in the past few years advertsing their frogs as "your hometown team" even though they don't recruit well in the metroplex. On the other hand SMU is still sticking with the "June Cometh" and "Pony Up" campaigns rather than going hard after the Dallas area market as "The" team for Dallas area fans. I think SMU is under the wrong impression that just winning games is enough to draw large crowds and market share. I say you have to make people feel that the mustangs are "their team".

I think you have to win first, which hopefully we are now doing, then you can say "your team". You can't be anyone's team at 1-11.
(unless you went to school here and love pain)

[CalallenStang]

I think basing conference alignment based on alumni in a particular area is a very small part of the equation. The question is can programs like TCU and SMU attract fans in large numbers from their local and regional areas and then national. I think that is why TCU has invested heavily in the past few years advertsing their frogs as "your hometown team" even though they don't recruit well in the metroplex. On the other hand SMU is still sticking with the "June Cometh" and "Pony Up" campaigns rather than going hard after the Dallas area market as "The" team for Dallas area fans. I think SMU is under the wrong impression that just winning games is enough to draw large crowds and market share. I say you have to make people feel that the mustangs are "their team".

Agreed about the marketing efforts, but this expansion is about cable subscribers.

[West Coast Johnny]

All the conference expansion talk is part fantasy & part reality. The definition of insanity is not understanding the difference.

Reality - Neither TCU nor SMU delivers the DFW media market. Together, the two schools would do a nice job of delivering the market.

Fantasy - TCU is a partner with SMU in conference expansion. The two schools are compeditors for limited resources. In conference expansion, its every man for himself. Both schools have felt the knife between the shoulder blades before (from Baylor and our other SWC "Friends"). TCU will throw SMU to the dogs if it suits them (and visa versa).

Reality - SMU might land in the Mountain West. I see the MWC adding at least three teams. Boise, and then 2 of the following three (Nevada, Fresno State, SMU). I see TCU advocating big time to get SMU into the Mountain (while at the same time maneuvering to get out of the MWC).

Fantasy - SMU & TCU together are an attractive add for conference expansion. A major conference adding two teams in Texas would look to add one team from DFW & one from Houston.

Reality - No one cares about college baseball. Its not a big revenue earner and no conference is going to care if SMU doesn't have baseball.

Fantasy - Conference expansion will make college football better. Ask any Big 10 football fan if they want Rutgers in their league. No-one wants to travel to Piss-cataway to play big 10 football. Hey Baylor, are you getting pumped up for your Big 12 Road games to Fort Collins & Albaqureque?

Reality - The Big 12 will invite neither TCU nor SMU unless the Big 12 South falls appart. Tech, Baylor, Texas, A&M etal, and the Big 12 North don't want another Texas School. TCU offers nothing (accept a quality athletic program) and SMU doesn't even have that yet.

The only chance for either TCU or SMU in the Big 12 is if the South division implodes (which hopefully will happen).

[CalallenStang]

Johnny, I agree on most of your points, but that doesn't change the fact that TCU and SMU need each other to deliver the Dallas market and give all of that money to a potential conference.

The smart move for both schools would be to package themselves together and go offer the Dallas market to conferences that don't have it, including the MWC. However, I see TCU trying to go off on their own, attempting to get into a conference based upon a market that they can't actually deliver by themselves (see the MWC right now).

[East Coast Mustang]

I feel like if there's 2 slots open, a conference would rather have TCU and Houston than TCU and SMU.

[CalallenStang]

I feel like if there's 2 slots open, a conference would rather have TCU and Houston than TCU and SMU.

That would capture the Houston market but not DFW, and DFW is the larger market.

[PK]

I feel like if there's 2 slots open, a conference would rather have TCU and Houston than TCU and SMU.

What does U of H offer a conference? Academic excellence? Quality facilities? The City of Houston (seriously)? Texas and A&M own Houston much like they own DFW. U of H was lucky to even get into the SWC. Much like UNT, they are mainly a commuter school.

[Water Pony]

If you add three, the better MWC move would be Boise (for raising FB profile) and then SMU and Houston. Then you actually create a Texas/Central Time Zone market for MWC. Fresno and Nevada don't and actually make TCU a bigger outlier in that scenario. Travel is bad enough for Frog fans and family.

This move only makes sense if the Big Ten adds only one team (minimizing the resulting chaos) and the Big XII adds no more Texas schools. If Big Ten goes big, then all bets are off.