Ohio State Article

[leopold]

None of this is as bad as what we did, there was no rubber stamp by the University to let the program or boosters do whatever they want.

Yea, well, the truth hurts.

But Tressell is in trouble. I seriously doubt he will come out of this unscathed, and by that I mean with his job. At the very least he is looking at somthing serious, such as losing millions off of his salary, ala Bruce Pearl, and that still may not be enough.

But I'm sorry boys, there is still a serious difference from what we did and what 'Tress' did.

[Stallion]

Ron Meyer: Eric you come to SMU and we'll see that you get all the free tatoos you want-you'll look so cool in that new Trans Am your granmother bought you

[ponyte]

THe NCAA accuses Tressell of knowing he was using ineligible players. So, out of curiosity, is OSU at risk of being found to have a lack of institutional control? I know the dog ate my homework is a valid reason for the NCAA to excuse most behavior (thanks to Auburn and CN for that clarification).

Now one can argue (at the NCAA headquarters) that a head coach hiding information about ineligible players and using them isn't really a part of the institutional processes. After all, it really is to prevent alums and boasters (one wonders if a tattoo artist can be a boaster) from running wild.

Bottom line, the OSU president claims he didn't know and their institution had process for just such a situation but cause the coach didn't know about it, OSU can't really be blamed. Then he will say TCU still didn't win the Rose Bowl and didn't even deserve to be there.

Tressell claims he never knew he was suppose to tell someone other than a buddy FBI agent about the ineligible players. We all know that the NCAA has so many goofy rules that it is impossible to keep up with the details of the rules. How could anyone blame Tressell for not fully understanding what is going on.

And the big penalty (if any), the wins that OSU had with the ineligible players will be vacated. That'll teach 'em!

[Stallion]

They are eligible but because the school-not Trussell- ruled the players ineligible immediately upon finding out(based upon facts presently known)-there is no way they will get the Death Penalty. That's how "institutional control" is supposed to work despite what the initial article inferred. But note Ohio St is facing sanctions for BOTH a) the initial violations and b) the coverup. Contrast to SMU-when the investigation showed culpability by the coaching staff the Board of Govenors and President of the University did the exact opposite

[stc9]

Stallion - I ask this because you are a lawyer. If the Coach is breaking the rules and getting away with it for a period of time. Is it a lack of institutional controls, because he wasn't properly supervised by his Boss? His boss was informed by a reporter of the situation 10 months later. Can the school be punished with "Lack of Institutional Control" for not supervising Tressle?

[Stallion]

the Coach-especially the Head Coach should be considered part of the institutional control in place-that is exactly why the NCAA is not only going to punish based on the violations but also based upon the coverup by the Head Coach.

It analyzes very similiar to agency law in litigation. A corporation can act only through its directors, officiers and agents but Tressell is not a director or officer of the (non-profit) corporation. In recent years the more conservative Supreme Court and Texas Supreme Court have repeatedly moved to insulate corporations from more potential liability for the actions of its agents.

Therefore, a corporation may not be fully liable for the "ultra vires" ("outside of his powers") acts of its employees acting against the stated policies of the corporation unless the managing officiers or directors knowingly participated, acceded to or condone the violations. The Head Coach is not the management or controlling authority of Ohio St. University-a (non) profit corporate entity. He has no power to vote at corporate meetings or set the official policies of the corporate entity. etc.

The university will claim they are "shocked-shocked I tell ya"- and attempt to draw a "fire wall" by pointing to the university policies and enforcement procedures which Trussell violated and often in these cases the Coach/employee is terminated. They will likely even claim Tressell lied to Ohio St and the NCAA when he certified that he knew of no NCAA violations. Quite frankly this is exactly how the the NCAA has always wanted these types of violations to be dealt with-with the institution exerting control to enforce NCAA rules by punishing or terminating, if necessary, the violators(see Jackie Sherrill at A&M, Jimmy Tubbs at SMU, Barry Switzer at OU). Tressell may not be terminated but he already has received some severe penalties from the university so they can arguably claim that they acted appropriately.

Note SMU could not draw a similiar "fire wall" from liability because SMU's directors and managing officiers fully authorized, participated in and condoned SMU's cheating with full knowledge of the "Payroll to Meet"

[stc9]

Stallion - Where does the management line begin? Is the Assistant AD considered part of management. He has a vote in the Athletic Department Meetings, but not part of the non-for-Profit corporate entity policy discussions. Where does this transform from a dishonest employee case and turn into a "Institutional Control Case"?

I am not hinting or implying that that more people knew about about Tressle's actions. This is for my general information only.

[EastStang]

Lack of institutional control is not the only violation that gets you the death penalty. Its committing a major violation while on probation with the NCAA. Any major violation will do. We happened to get the death penalty because we committed lack of institutional control and our violations were so in your face. Now Ohio State through its employee, Tressel clearly lied to the NCAA investigators about tattogate. That's right up there with the SMU violations where we said that we had terminated the payroll and hadn't. That's the kind of arrogance that gets the NCAA very angry. That said, I would be very, very surprised if the NCAA hit a major program like Ohio State with the death penalty even if it was caught red handed doing everything we were doing and more. I would love to see Ohio State fans having to sit out a year of football and go to soccer games, but that won't happen.

[Mexmustang]

I think the issue we should be upset with is the treatment of USC. They get penalized, file a motion to appeal and ignore all recruiting penalties and restrictions.

The Big Ten pales when compared to the cheating going on in the SEC--it is a semi-pro league that no one has the fortitude to stop. Try penalizing LSU, they will just find a friendly LSU judge and put the entire matter in perpetual limbo and more forward.

[Stallion]

Its in the NCAA Manual that they can delay scholarship penalties while appealing the NCAA decision. They simply followed the NCAA rules-now I think perhaps the NCAA Rules should be modified but they haven't escaped the eventual scholarship reductions unless their argument is found to have some merit.

[Mexmustang]

Stallion, I know SMU deserved what it received. In fact, the worst penalties were self-administered and we are still paying for it as we try to re-awaken our Texas recruiting (prior admission approvals, through the Cavan era,etc.).
The reason so many of us still have a "knee-jerk" reaction was the blatant disregard of what other schools were doing at the same time. The NCAA interviewed our players of that time who volunteered to list the benefits offered by other schools, but they wouldn't accept their testimony and never expanded their investigation. They simply stopped at the Hilltop. Then to have the very same schools come to our campus and recruit our transfers was something some of us will never forgive.
As for USC's appeal, it should have been denied. It took the NCAA over five years to dig up the evidence and negotiate with USC, what more do they need to present their case? Reggie Bush will be retired from the NFL before a final ruling is made.

[Stallion]

If you go back to the DMN article on the Monday or Tuesday before the TCU/Wacker story broke you'll find that the DMN reported that the NCAA was on SMU's campus interviewing SMU football players(I believe Rod Jones was one) concerning an investigation of TCU's recruitment of players from South Dallas you probably remember Egypt Allen and Gerald Taylor. That is why Jim Wacker called his Team Meeting. That is why he asked any TCU players to step forward if they were taking illegal inducements. That's why TCU turned itself in because the NCAA was on their trail. I know Dickerson and other have claimed that other schools were offering illegal inducements too. Don't you think that's why almost every school in Texas and Oklahoma was put on probation at about the same time. Name one media outlet in Texas who wouldn't want to get the scoop on Eric Dickerson(No. 1 High School Recruit in the Country) spilling the beans about illegal inducements. Dickerson loves to point fingers especially at UT but he never openly alleges a single violation against them-not even A&M. Just about every team that recruited Ronald Morris got put on probation. I'm not so sure its true the NCAA didn't follow up on some of those leads-I think probations at TCU, Tech, Oklahoma St at a minimum were based partly on allegations from SMU players-maybe more its been so long it gets hazy. I think the popular consensus at the time is that SMU instead of cleaning up its own program that was rotten the core hired private investigators to dig up dirt on every other school and information revealed during those investigations played a large part in an unpredented number of schools receiving probation. That strategy of dealing with corruption at one of the Top Academic Institutions in the Country is a pretty pathetic comment on the losers running SMU at the time in my opinion. Don't think those schools don't remember.

[ObeyMyDog]

Stallion, you seem to really enjoy this stuff. Your posts are much longer than usual.

Maybe you should be SMU's compliance officer.

[Mexmustang]

Aren't most of your recollections years before the "dp"? Morris was recruited under Fry, that was three coaches earlier--Fry, Smith, Myer, and Collins.

[Stallion]

Ronald Morris (not Wayne Morris) who committed to TCU, Texas Tech, Oklahoma St and then at the last minute committed to SMU. Morris was a National Top 100 and one of the most suspect recruiting cases in Texas. There were allegations of illegal recruiting surrounding just about every school he was involved with.