36-41 says it all

[ftworthmustang]

Its not the record-Ron Meyer was something like 24-31 after 5 years-its the trajectory of the program after 6 years. With an infusion of talent SMU went 10-1 in Ron Meyer's 6th year. With a lazy, close to incompetent recruiting (as opposed to evaluation) staff, June Jones went 5-7

Agreed. But also see...

Hawaii Warriors (Western Athletic Conference) (1999–2007)
1999 Hawaii 9–4 5–2 T–1st W Oahu
2000 Hawaii 3–9 2–6 T–6th
2001 Hawaii 9–3 5–3 T–4th
2002 Hawaii 10–4 7–1 2nd L Hawaii
2003 Hawaii 9–5 5–3 T–4th W Hawaii
2004 Hawaii 8–5 4–4 5th W Hawaii
2005 Hawaii 5–7 4–4 5th
2006 Hawaii 11–3 7–1 2nd W Hawaii 24
2007 Hawaii 12–1 8–0 1st L Sugar† 17 19


FRANCHIONE

New Mexico Lobos (Western Athletic Conference) (1992–1997)
1992 New Mexico 3–8 2–6 9th
1993 New Mexico 6–5 4–4 T–6th
1994 New Mexico 5–7 4–4 T–5th
1995 New Mexico 4–7 2–6 T–7th
1996 New Mexico 6–5 3–5 T–5th (Mountain)
1997 New Mexico 9–4 6–2 1st (Mountain) L Insight.com

MIKE PRICE

Washington State Cougars (Pacific-10 Conference) (1989–2002)
1989 Washington State 6–5 3–5 8th
1990 Washington State 3–8 2–6 9th
1991 Washington State 4–7 3–5 T–6th
1992 Washington State 9–3 5–3 T–3rd W Copper 17 15
1993 Washington State 5–6 3–5 7th
1994 Washington State 8–4 5–3 4th W Alamo 19 21
1995 Washington State 3–8 2–6 T–8th
1996 Washington State 5–6 3–5 T–8th
1997 Washington State 10–2 7–1 T–1st L Rose 9 9
1998 Washington State 3–8 0–8 10th
1999 Washington State 3–9 1–7 10th
2000 Washington State 4–7 2–6 T–8th
2001 Washington State 10–2 6–2 T–2nd W Sun 11 10
2002 Washington State 10–3 7–1 T–1st L Rose† 10 10 <-- refs screwed Leaf end of game for final play vs. MICHIGAN

What exactly are implying, that 5-7 was just an anomaly and we are headed for an improved record? If so, what is that based on? What I see is a team that will compete with the lower 1/4 of FBS. If we can pull a scheduling coup and somehow get 8 of the bottom 30 teams, we have a shot at winning record. Otherwise, I don't see us with a winning record again, as long as JJ is here. JJ & staff have done nothing the last two years that point to improvement. The incoming talent level is declining. I don't know of any statistics or charts or graphs that show a team improves when the level of talent goes down.

[Dark Horse]

Whether he should have left or not, I'm torn on that, but the fact is he's staying, making this debate completely moot.

[feelthehorsepower]

Ron Meyer took over the program 35 years ago, you can't compare him or what we expected of coaches back then to today. The game has changed. 35 years ago a coach in a major conference could coach for 15 years or longer with a .500 record. And as I said, it's the combination of the record and the trajectory of the program. 36-41 coming off a 5-7 season and a horrible recruiting class. As you correctly said, Ron Meyer had a average overall record, but his last two seasons were 8-4 and 10-1 with top recruiting classes and wins over Texas and other big boys. That program was on a huge uphill swing when he left to say the least.

Well we weren't technically recruiting players....more like hiring players...

[feelthehorsepower]

Its not the record-Ron Meyer was something like 24-31 after 5 years-its the trajectory of the program after 6 years. With an infusion of talent SMU went 10-1 in Ron Meyer's 6th year. With a lazy, close to incompetent recruiting (as opposed to evaluation) staff, June Jones went 5-7

Agreed. But also see...

Hawaii Warriors (Western Athletic Conference) (1999–2007)
1999 Hawaii 9–4 5–2 T–1st W Oahu
2000 Hawaii 3–9 2–6 T–6th
2001 Hawaii 9–3 5–3 T–4th
2002 Hawaii 10–4 7–1 2nd L Hawaii
2003 Hawaii 9–5 5–3 T–4th W Hawaii
2004 Hawaii 8–5 4–4 5th W Hawaii
2005 Hawaii 5–7 4–4 5th
2006 Hawaii 11–3 7–1 2nd W Hawaii 24
2007 Hawaii 12–1 8–0 1st L Sugar† 17 19


FRANCHIONE

New Mexico Lobos (Western Athletic Conference) (1992–1997)
1992 New Mexico 3–8 2–6 9th
1993 New Mexico 6–5 4–4 T–6th
1994 New Mexico 5–7 4–4 T–5th
1995 New Mexico 4–7 2–6 T–7th
1996 New Mexico 6–5 3–5 T–5th (Mountain)
1997 New Mexico 9–4 6–2 1st (Mountain) L Insight.com

MIKE PRICE

Washington State Cougars (Pacific-10 Conference) (1989–2002)
1989 Washington State 6–5 3–5 8th
1990 Washington State 3–8 2–6 9th
1991 Washington State 4–7 3–5 T–6th
1992 Washington State 9–3 5–3 T–3rd W Copper 17 15
1993 Washington State 5–6 3–5 7th
1994 Washington State 8–4 5–3 4th W Alamo 19 21
1995 Washington State 3–8 2–6 T–8th
1996 Washington State 5–6 3–5 T–8th
1997 Washington State 10–2 7–1 T–1st L Rose 9 9
1998 Washington State 3–8 0–8 10th
1999 Washington State 3–9 1–7 10th
2000 Washington State 4–7 2–6 T–8th
2001 Washington State 10–2 6–2 T–2nd W Sun 11 10
2002 Washington State 10–3 7–1 T–1st L Rose† 10 10 <-- refs screwed Leaf end of game for final play vs. MICHIGAN

What exactly are implying, that 5-7 was just an anomaly and we are headed for an improved record? If so, what is that based on? What I see is a team that will compete with the lower 1/4 of FBS. If we can pull a scheduling coup and somehow get 8 of the bottom 30 teams, we have a shot at winning record. Otherwise, I don't see us with a winning record again, as long as JJ is here. JJ & staff have done nothing the last two years that point to improvement. The incoming talent level is declining. I don't know of any statistics or charts or graphs that show a team improves when the level of talent goes down.

What do you know? Did you personally look at the roster and depth chart for next season? Did you look at the rosters of the teams we are going against? This forum is infested with losing attitudes...and no Chad Morris or Nick Saban would fix it...sad sad story

[RebStang]

Ron Meyer took over the program 35 years ago, you can't compare him or what we expected of coaches back then to today. The game has changed. 35 years ago a coach in a major conference could coach for 15 years or longer with a .500 record. And as I said, it's the combination of the record and the trajectory of the program. 36-41 coming off a 5-7 season and a horrible recruiting class. As you correctly said, Ron Meyer had a average overall record, but his last two seasons were 8-4 and 10-1 with top recruiting classes and wins over Texas and other big boys. That program was on a huge uphill swing when he left to say the least.

Well we weren't technically recruiting players....more like hiring players...

To quote every program in the SEC: If you aren't cheating, you aren't trying.

I'm torn on the whole issue but... it's as simple as this - if we want SMU to be a major conference football program ever again, we're going to have to cheat. TCU does it. Texas does it. Alabama does it. Auburn does it. Stanford does it. Ole Miss does it. Everyone that has success in major college football cheats to some degree... Vanderbilt didn't rise up from the craphole that its program was by emphasizing its great undergraduate economics program... they cheated... and cheated a lot.

[ftworthmustang]

Ron Meyer took over the program 35 years ago, you can't compare him or what we expected of coaches back then to today. The game has changed. 35 years ago a coach in a major conference could coach for 15 years or longer with a .500 record. And as I said, it's the combination of the record and the trajectory of the program. 36-41 coming off a 5-7 season and a horrible recruiting class. As you correctly said, Ron Meyer had a average overall record but his last two seasons were 8-4 and 10-1 with top recruiting classes and wins over Texas and other big boys. That program was on a huge uphill swing when he left to say the least.

Well we weren't technically recruiting players....more like hiring players...

The point of Stallion's comment earlier is that programs improve when the talent level goes up. Doesn't matter if it was 35 years ago or today and it doesn't matter how the talent gets there.

[ftworthmustang]

Agreed. But also see...

Hawaii Warriors (Western Athletic Conference) (1999–2007)
1999 Hawaii 9–4 5–2 T–1st W Oahu
2000 Hawaii 3–9 2–6 T–6th
2001 Hawaii 9–3 5–3 T–4th
2002 Hawaii 10–4 7–1 2nd L Hawaii
2003 Hawaii 9–5 5–3 T–4th W Hawaii
2004 Hawaii 8–5 4–4 5th W Hawaii
2005 Hawaii 5–7 4–4 5th
2006 Hawaii 11–3 7–1 2nd W Hawaii 24
2007 Hawaii 12–1 8–0 1st L Sugar† 17 19


FRANCHIONE

New Mexico Lobos (Western Athletic Conference) (1992–1997)
1992 New Mexico 3–8 2–6 9th
1993 New Mexico 6–5 4–4 T–6th
1994 New Mexico 5–7 4–4 T–5th
1995 New Mexico 4–7 2–6 T–7th
1996 New Mexico 6–5 3–5 T–5th (Mountain)
1997 New Mexico 9–4 6–2 1st (Mountain) L Insight.com

MIKE PRICE

Washington State Cougars (Pacific-10 Conference) (1989–2002)
1989 Washington State 6–5 3–5 8th
1990 Washington State 3–8 2–6 9th
1991 Washington State 4–7 3–5 T–6th
1992 Washington State 9–3 5–3 T–3rd W Copper 17 15
1993 Washington State 5–6 3–5 7th
1994 Washington State 8–4 5–3 4th W Alamo 19 21
1995 Washington State 3–8 2–6 T–8th
1996 Washington State 5–6 3–5 T–8th
1997 Washington State 10–2 7–1 T–1st L Rose 9 9
1998 Washington State 3–8 0–8 10th
1999 Washington State 3–9 1–7 10th
2000 Washington State 4–7 2–6 T–8th
2001 Washington State 10–2 6–2 T–2nd W Sun 11 10
2002 Washington State 10–3 7–1 T–1st L Rose† 10 10 <-- refs screwed Leaf end of game for final play vs. MICHIGAN

What exactly are implying, that 5-7 was just an anomaly and we are headed for an improved record? If so, what is that based on? What I see is a team that will compete with the lower 1/4 of FBS. If we can pull a scheduling coup and somehow get 8 of the bottom 30 teams, we have a shot at winning record. Otherwise, I don't see us with a winning record again, as long as JJ is here. JJ & staff have done nothing the last two years that point to improvement. The incoming talent level is declining. I don't know of any statistics or charts or graphs that show a team improves when the level of talent goes down.

What do you know? Did you personally look at the roster and depth chart for next season? Did you look at the rosters of the teams we are going against? This forum is infested with losing attitudes...and no Chad Morris or Nick Saban would fix it...sad sad story

Its sad that some people won't pull their heads out and look at reality.

[Pugilistic Pony]

I'm torn on the whole issue but... it's as simple as this - if we want SMU to be a major conference football program ever again, we're going to have to cheat. TCU does it. Texas does it. Alabama does it. Auburn does it. Stanford does it. Ole Miss does it. Everyone that has success in major college football cheats to some degree... Vanderbilt didn't rise up from the craphole that its program was by emphasizing its great undergraduate economics program... they cheated... and cheated a lot.

DP, here we go again? Seriously, I can't believe any SMU graduate would say this, given our infamous history. Slow learner?

[GRGB]

Agreed. But also see...

Hawaii Warriors (Western Athletic Conference) (1999–2007)
1999 Hawaii 9–4 5–2 T–1st W Oahu
2000 Hawaii 3–9 2–6 T–6th
2001 Hawaii 9–3 5–3 T–4th
2002 Hawaii 10–4 7–1 2nd L Hawaii
2003 Hawaii 9–5 5–3 T–4th W Hawaii
2004 Hawaii 8–5 4–4 5th W Hawaii
2005 Hawaii 5–7 4–4 5th
2006 Hawaii 11–3 7–1 2nd W Hawaii 24
2007 Hawaii 12–1 8–0 1st L Sugar† 17 19


FRANCHIONE

New Mexico Lobos (Western Athletic Conference) (1992–1997)
1992 New Mexico 3–8 2–6 9th
1993 New Mexico 6–5 4–4 T–6th
1994 New Mexico 5–7 4–4 T–5th
1995 New Mexico 4–7 2–6 T–7th
1996 New Mexico 6–5 3–5 T–5th (Mountain)
1997 New Mexico 9–4 6–2 1st (Mountain) L Insight.com

MIKE PRICE

Washington State Cougars (Pacific-10 Conference) (1989–2002)
1989 Washington State 6–5 3–5 8th
1990 Washington State 3–8 2–6 9th
1991 Washington State 4–7 3–5 T–6th
1992 Washington State 9–3 5–3 T–3rd W Copper 17 15
1993 Washington State 5–6 3–5 7th
1994 Washington State 8–4 5–3 4th W Alamo 19 21
1995 Washington State 3–8 2–6 T–8th
1996 Washington State 5–6 3–5 T–8th
1997 Washington State 10–2 7–1 T–1st L Rose 9 9
1998 Washington State 3–8 0–8 10th
1999 Washington State 3–9 1–7 10th
2000 Washington State 4–7 2–6 T–8th
2001 Washington State 10–2 6–2 T–2nd W Sun 11 10
2002 Washington State 10–3 7–1 T–1st L Rose† 10 10 <-- refs screwed Leaf end of game for final play vs. MICHIGAN

What do you know? Did you personally look at the roster and depth chart for next season? Did you look at the rosters of the teams we are going against? This forum is infested with losing attitudes...and no Chad Morris or Nick Saban would fix it...sad sad story

Its sad that some people won't pull their heads out and look at reality.

I want a change to increase our recruiting base, increase talent, because I do think we are regressing. But a 5-7 record in and of itself is not necessarily indicative of a failed coach. see examples above.

If we were still getting recruiting ranks in the 50s-60s, 4-5 years in a row, I do think June can coach them into a cohesive talent better than those rankings...but the truth is we have been fading down. The magic has worn off.

[LA_Mustang]

I just heard Rick Carlisle on with Norm and he said something that really struck me - "I go to work every day as if my job is on the line." How great is that? A coach who is considered one of the best in his game and just recently won it all, but he still grinds. This is the type of attitude and drive I want from all my coaches. I wish our football team had a HC with this mentality instead of the attitude of "I know you want me, and I might stay. But let me think about it for a while. I've got 10a tee time."

[BIGHORSE]

I just heard Rick Carlisle on with Norm and he said something that really struck me - "I go to work every day as if my job is on the line." How great is that? A coach who is considered one of the best in his game and just recently won it all, but he still grinds. This is the type of attitude and drive I want from all my coaches. I wish our football team had a HC with this mentality instead of the attitude of "I know you want me, and I might stay. But let me think about it for a while. I've got 10a tee time."

Or this, J.J. says I know ya'll don't want me here, and I don't want to be here, but for

2 million bucks a year I guess I will stay.

[dr rc]

2 million bucks a year

is why June's last two years are not acceptable.

[Grant Carter]

2 million bucks a year

is why June's last two years are not acceptable.

So you would be ok with 5-7 of he was only making $800k or something like that?

[dr rc]

So you would be ok with 5-7 of he was only making $800k or something like that?

a 5-7 after 4 straight bowls with an $800k HC is a hell of a lot more acceptable than one who is making $2million per.

Would I think it was a good thing? No. But it wouldn't be nearly as ridiculous to extend him under those circumstances b/c the money for the staff would obviously be much less and would make it much harder to improve after years and years of futility.

Since that is not the case it is simply not acceptable in any shape or form. He got the entrance requirements eased up, he has money for a staff, he makes more than several BCS coaches, and only Tuberville (who has many more skins on the wall) at Cincy makes more out of the non BCS coaches.

For $2 million a year he is a total bust.

[Grant Carter]

So you would be ok with 5-7 of he was only making $800k or something like that?

.

a 5-7 after 4 straight bowls with an $800k HC is a hell of a lot more acceptable than one who is making $2million per.

Would I think it was a good thing? No. But it wouldn't be nearly as ridiculous to extend him under those circumstances b/c the money for the staff would obviously be much less and would make it much harder to improve after years and years of futility.

Since that is not the case it is simply not acceptable in any shape or form. He got the entrance requirements eased up, he has money for a staff, he makes more than several BCS coaches, and only Tuberville (who has many more skins on the wall) at Cincy makes more out of the non BCS coaches.

For $2 million a year he is a total bust.

So what is the dollar cutoff to make 5-7 acceptable for you? I do not consider it acceptable period, but sounds like you are more forgiving.