Cast your vote: Death penalty for Miami?

[HB Pony Dad]

tell Pat Hayden that he's whining like a little girl

+




HAY DEN




HA DEN

Trojans never whine or cry, we just...

[ponyscott]

As of now I believe we were worse from the standpoint of how high our cheating went. Board of Regents and Governor gets pretty elevated on the bad scale. Not knowing yet how high Miami went, is why I would say we were worse. But that still does not mean a school has to reach the same level to get the DP. As a matter of fact, had the NCAA put other schools on the DP back when the cheating was rampant in the SWC, and elsewhere, there probably would not be the problems that are happening today and the NCAA would not be such a joke.

Sorry I still disagree....if you read all the reports and articles, allegedly many others including higher-ups within UM were involved and were complaisant.

[smudubs]

So I watched The U earlier and saw this SI cover from June 1995. It seems applicable today.

http://sportsillustrated.asia/vault/cov ... /index.htm

[Stallion]

I've read a bunch of articles and find the evidence above the Coaching level to be pretty vague and inconclusive SO FAR. I've seen reporters and fans claim otherwise. Perfect example was posted above but there was no evidence cited to support that critical conclusion. In fact, the NCAA President has praised the Miami President for full and open cooperation. What exactly points to the administration, the Presient, the AD, the Board members? Taking donations or shaking hands with the President are not conclusive. I'm really interested in exactly what proof there is that they were involved. Without that kind of evidence I have little doubt that the NCAA will hit them with unprecedented sanctions but short of the Death Penalty. They will allow the school to clean up the program before imposing a Death Penalty.

[mrydel]

As of now I believe we were worse from the standpoint of how high our cheating went. Board of Regents and Governor gets pretty elevated on the bad scale. Not knowing yet how high Miami went, is why I would say we were worse. But that still does not mean a school has to reach the same level to get the DP. As a matter of fact, had the NCAA put other schools on the DP back when the cheating was rampant in the SWC, and elsewhere, there probably would not be the problems that are happening today and the NCAA would not be such a joke.

Sorry I still disagree....if you read all the reports and articles, allegedly many others including higher-ups within UM were involved and were complaisant.

Again, I am only basing my opinion on what has been proven to date. It is very possible that Miami will be considered to have been worse when this all shakes out. I think the the number of players, years in went on, extent of the "gifts" do at this point appear to be more extensive than what went on at SMU. And if and when the administration is shown to have been involved, then yes I would agree with you. It is just that at this point we are still relying on the word of a slimy individual who may be saying things for either attention or spite. I am just waiting for the true facts to come out. I am not trying to keep SMU "on top".

And if I have not been clear, if the accusations are true, I want Miami to be given the death penalty. What I do not want to have happen is to have someone at the NCAA to say that Miami does not deserve it because they did not reach the level of SMU's misdeeds. Whether or not they are worse than us, they do not have to meet our level, they only have to meet the level that it takes to be eligible for the death penalty. Then the NCAA has to man up and pull the switch.

[Mitch McConnell]

If the facts are accurate, I really hope Miami (Fla.) does NOT receive it. No one should ever have to endure what we did.

As a student at SMU for the 1987 and 88 seasons, the death penalty did more damage than to just athletics. It split the campus up into segments and the school never took on a real atmosphere. The void was felt and there was an emptiness that really impacted all aspects of the school. And because of this you had an administration that came to SMU that bent over backwards to take the school in a different direction. It's taken years and years for SMU to recover from this.

My fear is that Miami could end up going in the same direction.

Should the violations be proven, Miami should get as hard a penalty as possible. Death Penalty? I hope the NCAA really explores how a university overall can be negatively impacted by this.

The NCAA should never again use it.

[mrydel]

Then they need to say that they will not ever use it again. I am tired of it being used as a threat and then it is never even close to being used. If they would hit a couple of deserving schools with it, then the other schools might be more likely to clean up their act and be wary that they could receive it also. What good is having the punishment if it will never be used?

[Greenwich Pony]

The only organization getting the death penalty is effectively the NCAA. If they do give the death penalty (and even if half the allegeations are true, Miami does qualify and deserves it), then the BCS conferences may very well just take their football programs out of the NCAA (but find a way to leave lucrative basketball and not-so-lucrative non-revenue sports to the NCAA) and form their own league taking the money with them. But if they don't assess the penalty, then frankly any and all D-1 (or whatever label they are using this week) can pretty much do whatever they please and the NCAA is now increasingly toothless and pointless, since the organization was origiallly founded to regulate fooball excesses. Why should they listen to the NCAA?

I don't really care if the NCAA actually does regulate college athletics if they enforce the rules equally and firmly. I would be equally happy if the NCAA simply set up championship tournaments and let universities and boosters run wild. This middle ground is an untenable position and is beging for lawsuits and is the cause of a great deal of the problem. If it's illegal but strictly and seriously enforced (with some logical revisions to the rules), we would have only a fraction of this nonsense. If it open season, the sleazy people sneaking around will (mostly) disappear since everyone will be able to see what is going on.

[Stallion]

that's a pretty stupid suggestion there ACE

[One Trick Pony]

Where did the poll go to on the link ?

[jtstang]

This guy, Tom Hardesty, sounds like a disgruntled Seminole supporter and is "WIDE RIGHT" on his analysis.

You can't kill a University's athletic program permanently because of the behavior of a few miscreants.

I mean you can't permanently shut the prgram down, literally by NCAA rule. From the current NCAA manual:

19.5.2.3 Repeat Violators.
19.5.2.3.1 Time Period. An institution shall be considered a “repeat” violator if the Committee on Infractions
finds that a major violation has occurred within five years of the starting date of a major penalty.
For this provision to apply, at least one major violation must have occurred within five years after the starting
date of the penalties in the previous case. It shall not be necessary that the Committee on Infractions’ hearing
be conducted or its report issued within the five-year period. (Revised: 1/14/97 effective 8/1/97)
19.5.2.3.2 Repeat-Violator Penalties. In addition to the penalties identified for a major violation, the
minimum penalty for a repeat violator, subject to exceptions authorized by the Committee on Infractions
on the basis of specifically stated reasons, may include any or all of the following: (Revised: 1/11/94)
(a) The prohibition of some or all outside competition in the sport involved in the latest major violation
for one or two sports seasons and the prohibition of all coaching staff members in that sport from
involvement directly or indirectly in any coaching activities at the institution during that period;
(b) The elimination of all initial grants-in-aid and all recruiting activities in the sport involved in the
latest major violation in question for a two-year period;
(c) The requirement that all institutional staff members serving on the Board of Directors, Leadership
Council, Legislative Council or other cabinets or committees of the Association resign those positions,
it being understood that all institutional representatives shall be ineligible to serve on any
NCAA committee for a period of four years; and (Revised: 11/1/07 effective 8/1/08)
(d) The requirement that the institution relinquish its voting privilege in the Association for a four-year
period.

It took me Google and two minutes to find this. Some reporters are either lazy or stupid.

[stc9]

I have been hoping that another program would get the DP for years. Let someone else know, share our pain and frustration. With all of the talk about Miami getting the DP I realize I really don't want it happen to them.

What lessons did we learn from the actual effects of the DP.
1). Enrollment got hammered. I remember reading years ago that it decreased 2,000 students for several years after the punishment was handed out. This makes a material difference in revenues and quality of the academic experience.
2). Alumni donations dried up almost overnight. Alumni all over the country were immediately embarrassed by their alma mater.
3). It created a cultural revolution within that fractured the community into different groups.

I am sure in the darkest days there were meetings about the on going viability of the institution.
President Pye hamstrung the healing, recovery process to such a degree that his cure was worse for the fans than the disease. We could have gotten over the DP at least a decade ago, but we (the institution) didn't want to.

If the NCAA gave the DP to a 'Bama, Oregon, OSU or UNC the State Legislatures would make sure that the doors stayed open and they didn't have to invade their endowments to pay day to day bills. Hitting a small/medium sized private school again with the DP is just too devastating to the institution as a whole. If the accusations are true... Take 20 schollies a year for 7 years. The DP has so many financial side effects that the next test case should be reserved for an institution that has state backing.

[HB Pony Dad]

Where did the poll go to on the link ?

It is still there:
Cast your vote: Death penalty for Miami?

48,972 Total Votes
Yes 66%
No 34%

Apparently a great deal of envy and animus for the...

[stc9]

Poll doesn't come up on iPad or iPhone

[HB Pony Dad]

Poll doesn't come up on iPad or iPhone

You can thank Mr. Jobs for that.

Adobe Flash!