SMU Football Coaches...

[Warbow]

All good points. The Run & Shoot also has some good points also. It's sort of like the service academies offenses where it kind of levels the playing field for smaller less athletic type of players. It take more time to prepare for versus the standard formation type of offense.

A couple comments to your comment: "There is no threat from the QB as a runner or as an option operator".

Disagree here. There's a real big threat for a running QB in this offense as Hawaii experienced this last weekend. The problem with that is that JJ won't allow his QB to run. I must have seen it a million times where a QB under Jones had at least 10 yards of open space to get a first down but the QB (under direction) always choose to complete a pass to someone who was covered. I always thought that a running QB who is a decent passer could make this offense explode with points and running yardage.

Ever wonder why JJ don't recruit black QB's that can run? No, it's not because JJ is prejudice, it's because he doesn't want to be forced by public outcry to change his offense to include his QB's running the football.

[rich59]

Those are good points you make. And the point about the mobile QB is especially good. Have two good friends that played at SMU in the distant past. One was all SWC and the other a 3 year letterman and the both think the run and shoot would be better with a mobile QB but your point is dead on, I think.

Another factor I forgot to mention is that present day defenses are set up to stop the spread offenses so popular in college today. The run and shoot was probably more viable twenty years ago when most colleges were running an option type or the I formation more oriented for the running attack. Today the defenses are set up to stop the pass with more DBs and fast LBs.

[Warbow]

Those are good points you make. And the point about the mobile QB is especially good. Have two good friends that played at SMU in the distant past. One was all SWC and the other a 3 year letterman and the both think the run and shoot would be better with a mobile QB but your point is dead on, I think.

Another factor I forgot to mention is that present day defenses are set up to stop the spread offenses so popular in college today. The run and shoot was probably more viable twenty years ago when most colleges were running an option type or the I formation more oriented for the running attack. Today the defenses are set up to stop the pass with more DBs and fast LBs.

Here's a few examples of what a running QB can do in the Run & Shoot.

http://www.youtube.com/user/UHCU2011#p/u/12/72AeB-Wrk4k

http://www.youtube.com/user/UHCU2011#p/u/14/62t4rxV5f5Y

http://www.youtube.com/user/UHCU2011#p/u/15/C-JPRtE_k8k

http://www.youtube.com/user/UHCU2011#p/u/16/O8CfTBIpQWc

Note: All but one of those plays were by design to let the QB run.

[sbsmith]

Those are good points you make. And the point about the mobile QB is especially good. Have two good friends that played at SMU in the distant past. One was all SWC and the other a 3 year letterman and the both think the run and shoot would be better with a mobile QB but your point is dead on, I think.

Another factor I forgot to mention is that present day defenses are set up to stop the spread offenses so popular in college today. The run and shoot was probably more viable twenty years ago when most colleges were running an option type or the I formation more oriented for the running attack. Today the defenses are set up to stop the pass with more DBs and fast LBs.

Here's a few examples of what a running QB can do in the Run & Shoot.

http://www.youtube.com/user/UHCU2011#p/u/12/72AeB-Wrk4k

http://www.youtube.com/user/UHCU2011#p/u/14/62t4rxV5f5Y

http://www.youtube.com/user/UHCU2011#p/u/15/C-JPRtE_k8k

http://www.youtube.com/user/UHCU2011#p/u/16/O8CfTBIpQWc

Note: All but one of those plays were by design to let the QB run.

Saw that game, I knew Moniz was a decent athlete but that 50 yard sprint had my jaw on the floor. Must be fun having a competent QB.

[rich59]

Good stuff Warbow. That is the kind of scheme that SMU's offense would really benefit from. They are in the Pistol formation and running the option and the QB draw. SMU was in the pistol on Line's first run but I don't believe they got in that formation anymore. I don't believe that we have a QB that can run like that though.

[Stallion]

SMU fans have seen what a mobile QB can do in the Run and Shoot. Ramon Flanigan drove teams nuts

[San Antonio Mustang]

I am going to weigh in here. I understand the point being made that the R&S is designed to move the ball quickly and the defense does not have time to catch it's breath. But I don't agree that is a systemic problem that will keep a R&S team from being a top ten team. The last two years SMU would have won more games & the ones they won would have been by bigger margins if one thing had changed. If the receivers had not dropped so many passes. For the R&S to work you have to have a QB and receivers who can read the defense, the QB must be accurate and the receivers must catch the ball. For the most part we seem to have been doing OK on the first two, but not the third. Even last Sunday with Padron off and JJ taking too long to get his passes off the game would have been different if our receivers had not dropped the ball so many times. If we can ever recruit receivers who reliably catch the ball we will be lights out. As to defenders needing more rest, Oregon last year did not give their defenders much rest. Their no huddle wide open style got their offense off the field quickly. A strong defense will get off the filed quickly just like a strong offense will get off the field quickly. I have been around SMU football for 50 years and June Jones and his staff are the best game day coaching staff I have seen at SMU. I can't think of any other staff in the state during those years that were better than this staff. Given the talent level they have to deal with they are very good. As to whether we can reliably beat the "big boys" as a non AQ school time will tell. But I will note there are only a few schools who have.

[Warbow]

I am going to weigh in here. I understand the point being made that the R&S is designed to move the ball quickly and the defense does not have time to catch it's breath. But I don't agree that is a systemic problem that will keep a R&S team from being a top ten team. The last two years SMU would have won more games & the ones they won would have been by bigger margins if one thing had changed. If the receivers had not dropped so many passes. For the R&S to work you have to have a QB and receivers who can read the defense, the QB must be accurate and the receivers must catch the ball. For the most part we seem to have been doing OK on the first two, but not the third. Even last Sunday with Padron off and JJ taking too long to get his passes off the game would have been different if our receivers had not dropped the ball so many times. If we can ever recruit receivers who reliably catch the ball we will be lights out. As to defenders needing more rest, Oregon last year did not give their defenders much rest. Their no huddle wide open style got their offense off the field quickly. A strong defense will get off the filed quickly just like a strong offense will get off the field quickly. I have been around SMU football for 50 years and June Jones and his staff are the best game day coaching staff I have seen at SMU. I can't think of any other staff in the state during those years that were better than this staff. Given the talent level they have to deal with they are very good. As to whether we can reliably beat the "big boys" as a non AQ school time will tell. But I will note there are only a few schools who have.

I don't think you fully understand. Not only is the run and shoot a quick strike, move the ball quickly type of offense, it's also has a lot of 3 and out type of offensive series due to problems that you mentioned (drop passes). That also gets your defense back on the field with little or no time expended.

It seems that Hawaii's run and shoot system is a little different then SMU's. Hawaii plays more of the "ball control" type of passing game where SMU's is more of the "quick score" passes. Hawaii relies more on the short high percentage passes and turns its receivers into running backs after the catch. SMU is more of the down the field, big play over the middle type of strikes.

You are correct with Oregon's offense but the thing you failed to realize is that when Oregon runs their hurry-up offense, they take the same amount of time between snaps as any other team that huddles-up. The only difference is, they don't huddle-up which doesn't allow the opponents defense to make substitutions. They expend a lot of the 25 second play clock looking over to the sidelines for the play call. Besides Oregon is primarily a running team which kills the clock also.

What you see with Oregon is an illusion, they take the same amount of time to score as any other running team in the country. Because they don't huddle, it just seems like they are taking less time to run a play but the majority of the play clock is use when they're already in formation looking to the sideline for the play. Make sense?

[RGV Pony]

Quick score passes are great. Except when, as pointed out by Alex lifeson, they result in 35 points over the last 3 games combined

[NickSMU17]

Ouch..... Truth hurts...

[Stallion]

Warbow-SMU barely threw a bomb last week. Did they even throw one over 35 yards? SMU hasn't run the old Hawaii Run and Shoot since Jones got here. We aren't getting the ball downfield in the intermediate zones consistently to our receivers except to NFL types like Sanders and track guy Robinson in past years. Our Inside Receivers against quality competition especially have trouble getting downfield to make plays. Go back and check where 90% of the balls were thrown to SMU Inside Receivers last week. 3-5 yards downfield then they usually ran for a couple of more yards. Darius Johnson made a couple of longer runs but few passes to the Inside Receivers were very effective. Now I'm sure some of these guys will put up big numbers in the next 3 weeks but their inability to make plays in the intermediate zone even makes the Run and Shoot pretty anemic against quality competition. If I was UTEP I'd stuff the intermediate zones and dare McDerrmott to throw long. I'm not sure we have a QB or WR that can hurt a good team deep.

[Warbow]

Warbow-SMU barely threw a bomb last week. Did they even throw one over 35 yards? SMU hasn't run the old Hawaii Run and Shoot since Jones got here. We aren't getting the ball downfield in the intermediate zones consistently to our receivers except to NFL types like Sanders and track guy Robinson in past years. Our Inside Receivers against quality competition especially have trouble getting downfield to make plays. Go back and check where 90% of the balls were thrown to SMU Inside Receivers last week. 3-5 yards downfield then they usually ran for a couple of more yards. Darius Johnson made a couple of longer runs but few passes to the Inside Receivers were very effective. Now I'm sure some of these guys will put up big numbers in the next 3 weeks but their inability to make plays in the intermediate zone even makes the Run and Shoot pretty anemic against quality competition. If I was UTEP I'd stuff the intermediate zones and dare McDerrmott to throw long. I'm not sure we have a QB or WR that can hurt a good team deep.

Watching SMU's offense under JJ, I noticed that SMU throws more medium to long range passes thrown to the wide-outs then those short ball control stuff to the slots that Hawaii does. Maybe I'm wrong about that. It seems JJ takes what the defense gives him but Hawaii forces it's short passing game on its opponents.

I think SMU and Hawaii have different philosophies for the run and shoot. JJ spreads the field out with long passes early in attemphs to open up the short routes later while Hawaii uses the short passes early to open up the longer routes later.

[ponyboy]

Saw that game, I knew Moniz was a decent athlete but that 50 yard sprint had my jaw on the floor. Must be fun having a competent QB.

Man, same here. I was shocked at how Hawaii's qb made everyone else look like they were standing still. Great athlete.

[RSFan]

I think with the Run & Shoot it is really based on what the opponet is giving you. If you have five seconds to throw the ball you have the luxury to pursue the deeper route. If you are facing TAMU most likely it will shorten your game. The quick pass will move the chains and draw the defense in and open up the mid range and YAC. If you have a quarterback who can consistantly hit a long ball while the receiver is in close coverage fine. Last year everyone in the conference knew KP was going to throw up the Hail Mary in the first two plays and again when he needed a play regardless of coverage, occasionally in the beginning it worked. We can save our bomb for when someone slips coverage and can adjust. We don't need to base our passing game on getting behind the D in a sprint, we need to base it on accuracy and putting the ball in front of the receiver so he can get YAC. We saw a little of that with McD last week. That is why JJ typicall uses the smaller shifty receivers who can snatch a ball out of the air not have to adjust to poor throws. McD will go a little longer this week. As for an option QB JJ likes using his blocking back and the shovel pass which we have finally seen with McD, I have been waiting for that for a year. Evidently KP couldn't handle it. Maybe if we were deep with qualified QB's it would be more appealing to JJ to run the QB options. Here is an example of a very good QB on the run. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9ZRBp4_ ... re=related

[ObeyMyDog]

rich59,

It is really easy to make your hatred for the run and shoot sound legit when you point out every negative it may or may not have, and list zero of the advantages it give you.

By your account, this offense should never have been invented, how could anyone win using it?

I am not saying I am in love with the RnS, but it is a fine substitute for me from, for example, the spread/air raid... it's all the same, as long as the right pieces get put in place.

Bottom line is talent, a talent rich RnS team will beat a less talented (insert offense/philosophy here) team.