Time for Turner to Go

[Grant Carter]

Maybe I missed it, but where was the part about turner being the only school president in the big east who was personal friends with the Tulane president and this turner single handedly forced the big east to accept Tulane? I thought that was a standard part of mex's posts about turner.

[orguy]

he turned Ole Miss football into a joke. I mean, that is the only thing that people in Mississippi even care about, and RGT blew it up!

Not really even close to accurate but I get your point.

Outside of raising a ton of money and raising SAT scores, I'm starting to ask myself what exactly Turner is trying to accomplish at SMU.

In his time on the Hilltop, it seems like Cox has slipped in the rankings, Law is closer to falling out of Tier 1 than breaking into the top 25, football has risen from the ashes and then decided to go back into hiding, the focus of most coaching hires seems to be on older "big name" guys (don't get me wrong, I love Coach Brown in basketball but D'oh did nothing and June seems to be collecting a paycheck and coasting), etc.

Meanwhile, I look about 50 miles to my west and see the University of Alabama. A school most of us really want to mock until we start looking at what they're doing. Football program? Dominant. Law school almost in the top 20. Business school is ranked just below Cox and has been rising while Cox has been falling... I always thought Alabama was sacrificing academics in favor of athletics and, in some ways, they do... but their athletic success is also creating academic success. Heck, their athletic department generates enough excess revenue every year that it transfers quite a bit of money to the University's general operating budget.

The one thing I'll say is that whoever takes over when Turner leaves will have better tools to work with than when Turner arrived. Turner is great at raising money and getting new buildings built... if the next guy can do what Turner can't (setting his ego aside) and hire the right Deans, athletics administrators, etc then SMU could explode... in a good way.

Whats wrong with raising SAT scores? Keep raising em. Its the only way SMU will rise in the "national" university US News rankings. Think what one may about these scores they are the only metric we have. How else is one to compare High Schools? SAT scores went down in the Pye years. Under Turner they have risen significantly. This is good. The US news rankings for "national" universities are important. They reflect the quality of the undergraduate student body. SMU also needed a facelift after the Pig Pye was no longer president. Turner raised the money to get this done. Pye had done nothing on this front. Pye did nothing but threaten to fold the very Engineering programs that have the highest SAT score students! fold the programs with the best students. Brilliant guy. Turner has been an enormously successful president for SMU that is well liked amongst both current students and faculty.

The LAW school has never ever been anywhere near the top 25. Ever. It was around 45th or 50th nationally in the early 80's. Its now 50th out of 100 accredited Law schools nationally. Its always always been the SAME despite the myth making of many of its faculty and graduates (No, I am not a Lawyer nor do I play one on Television).

Frankly, its not the graduate programs that SMU is ranked on as an institution but rather the quality of the undergraduate student body. Many who are prepping for admission to elite Medical and Law programs (i.e like UT or Stanford or Penn). SMU does very very well in placing its graduates into these programs when they graduate (granted they actually earned their high grades in the hard classes/majors instead of the easy fluff "communications" type classes)

As for Ole Miss as a "university"; Ole Miss is right up there with Louisville or Memphis State.

[ftworthmustang]

In my opinion, Turner has been accommodating to the Athletic department requests. He doesn't seem like he is pro football, but I think he knows that having a successful football team (goes to bowl games) is great advertisement for the school and tends to increase applications, which in turn, tends to raise the academic level of those admitted. I don't think it matters to him one way or the other, if the football team is 7-5, 6-6, or 8-4. I think his concern is cost, how the program reflects on the university, and that they represent themselves well in the AAC. Again, this is just how it comes across to me.

[orguy]

SAT scores are for college president to take to their boards. But, in truth most educators don't take much stock in them. They are not a valid predictor of college success. In fact they are one of the lower weighted statistics used in the US News ratings. By the way, SMU is not even in the top 100. Most of the numbers bantered about by our administration leaves our many, many universities and colleges. Williams for instance is not part of their data base.

SAT scores are also misused. I remember three years ago arguing with one of our past Board Chairman, when he railed about the effect our football recruiting would have on our SAT scores if we didn't a faculty admissions committee. He obviously not only placed far too much value on these silly numbers, but had no concept of statistics and how negligible the effect of 25 scholarship athletes would have on the SAT averages of our incoming freshman classes! I obviously broke his bubble and his belief that SAT scores really make a great university.

Williams is 1/10th the size of SMU and probably 1/100th the size of most universities in the ranking the past board chairman was speaking of my friend. Its logical small tiny liberal arts universities are in another category. Hate to burst your bubble man!!! Harvard is in a different category than Williams for instance because of SIZE. Since your a Stat genius maybe you can grasp the "concept".

comparing university of dallas (also in the same category as Williams) to SMU is ridiculous if you are to use national universities in us news as the basis. UD is not exactly national. Neither is Hendrix or Austin College.

Logic is a [deleted] aint it? Sorry u did poorly on your boards

[orguy]

In my opinion, Turner has been accommodating to the Athletic department requests. He doesn't seem like he is pro football, but I think he knows that having a successful football team (goes to bowl games) is great advertisement for the school and tends to increase applications, which in turn, tends to raise the academic level of those admitted. I don't think it matters to him one way or the other, if the football team is 7-5, 6-6, or 8-4. I think his concern is cost, how the program reflects on the university, and that they represent themselves well in the AAC. Again, this is just how it comes across to me.

Well put. Agree with most of what you have said.

However, if we went 10-2 or 9-3 consistently and started to gain national attention then I think he would become more interested. A spike in applications would occur. This is exactly what happened in the early eighties.

[gostangs]

org - you are dead right. That Turner was hated by Ol Miss is to his credit. That is a total joke of a university, even by SEC standards. They are at the bottom of the barrel and they strangely love it that way. Nice people, and they sure can party, I love their Grove and they have some nice football - but they are missing the point. Universities are not in existence to nurture the school - its the other way around.

Now i agree higher profile football gets you more applications (not necessarily the ones you want - but more of them for sure) - which is good for the school ultimately. As far behind us as they are academically there is no doubt that TCU has closed the gap somewhat and probably due to their football success.

Bigger attention is enough of a reason to get rid of June and bring in some energy. Even if they were not as successful (and i think they could easily be more successful), i would rather have someone who loves being here and has energy - engages with the community and is "our guy" - then the comatose pineapple on a shelf we have currently.

[Stallion]

and let's forget that much of that hate from Ole Miss stems from dragging that university into the 20th Century by attempting to get rid of the Rebel flags and other repugnant symbols of the Confederacy. They ought to thank him for reducing the idiot factor at that school. I'd love to see them try to compete today in the SEC with a bunch of Confederate flags flying in the stands

[mustang1992]

This Gerald Turner criticism is just ridiculous nonsense. If June played the Dallas community like Gerald Turner plays the SMU community then SMU would be sitting pretty. June Jones not Gerald Turner is the Head Football Coach of the SMU Mustangs

This

[orguy]

I've visited Oxford. Did not get to a game as it was in the Summer back in the 1980's. Good times. The Faulkner history etc. Quite impressive. However, reading what I have over the years about the practices and traditions practiced by the fan base (as eluded to by Stallion) it always amazes me that African American athletes would even consider that place. They snagged a couple of 5 star Defenders a year or two ago and I was shocked that given a choice they chose Ole Miss. For many years the top high school talent in that state had either gone to Southern Miss or left the state completely.

Your comments about June are true. Guy looked like comatose pineapple this past season.

[ftworthmustang]

I've visited Oxford. Did not get to a game as it was in the Summer back in the 1980's. Good times. The Faulkner history etc. Quite impressive. However, reading what I have over the years about the practices and traditions practiced by the fan base (as eluded to by Stallion) it always amazes me that African American athletes would even consider that place. They snagged a couple of 5 star Defenders a year or two ago and I was shocked that given a choice they chose Ole Miss. For many years the top high school talent in that state had either gone to Southern Miss or left the state completely.

Your comments about June are true. Guy looked like comatose pineapple this past season.

You're being generous.....

[RebStang]

he turned Ole Miss football into a joke. I mean, that is the only thing that people in Mississippi even care about, and RGT blew it up!

Not really even close to accurate but I get your point.

Outside of raising a ton of money and raising SAT scores, I'm starting to ask myself what exactly Turner is trying to accomplish at SMU.

In his time on the Hilltop, it seems like Cox has slipped in the rankings, Law is closer to falling out of Tier 1 than breaking into the top 25, football has risen from the ashes and then decided to go back into hiding, the focus of most coaching hires seems to be on older "big name" guys (don't get me wrong, I love Coach Brown in basketball but D'oh did nothing and June seems to be collecting a paycheck and coasting), etc.

Meanwhile, I look about 50 miles to my west and see the University of Alabama. A school most of us really want to mock until we start looking at what they're doing. Football program? Dominant. Law school almost in the top 20. Business school is ranked just below Cox and has been rising while Cox has been falling... I always thought Alabama was sacrificing academics in favor of athletics and, in some ways, they do... but their athletic success is also creating academic success. Heck, their athletic department generates enough excess revenue every year that it transfers quite a bit of money to the University's general operating budget.

The one thing I'll say is that whoever takes over when Turner leaves will have better tools to work with than when Turner arrived. Turner is great at raising money and getting new buildings built... if the next guy can do what Turner can't (setting his ego aside) and hire the right Deans, athletics administrators, etc then SMU could explode... in a good way.

Whats wrong with raising SAT scores? Keep raising em. Its the only way SMU will rise in the "national" university US News rankings. Think what one may about these scores they are the only metric we have. How else is one to compare High Schools? SAT scores went down in the Pye years. Under Turner they have risen significantly. This is good. The US news rankings for "national" universities are important. They reflect the quality of the undergraduate student body. SMU also needed a facelift after the Pig Pye was no longer president. Turner raised the money to get this done. Pye had done nothing on this front. Pye did nothing but threaten to fold the very Engineering programs that have the highest SAT score students! fold the programs with the best students. Brilliant guy. Turner has been an enormously successful president for SMU that is well liked amongst both current students and faculty.

The LAW school has never ever been anywhere near the top 25. Ever. It was around 45th or 50th nationally in the early 80's. Its now 50th out of 100 accredited Law schools nationally. Its always always been the SAME despite the myth making of many of its faculty and graduates (No, I am not a Lawyer nor do I play one on Television).

Frankly, its not the graduate programs that SMU is ranked on as an institution but rather the quality of the undergraduate student body. Many who are prepping for admission to elite Medical and Law programs (i.e like UT or Stanford or Penn). SMU does very very well in placing its graduates into these programs when they graduate (granted they actually earned their high grades in the hard classes/majors instead of the easy fluff "communications" type classes)

As for Ole Miss as a "university"; Ole Miss is right up there with Louisville or Memphis State.

Sure... take your shots at Ole Miss. You're not the first to do it... you won't be the last. I am and will always be grateful to the University of Mississippi because the educations my parents received there enabled my parents to do well enough to pay my SMU tuition in cash every year.

[NavyCrimson]

We'll said, Reb.

[Water Pony]

This Gerald Turner criticism is just ridiculous nonsense. If June played the Dallas community like Gerald Turner plays the SMU community then SMU would be sitting pretty. June Jones not Gerald Turner is the Head Football Coach of the SMU Mustangs

I agree. JJ has to do two things.

He needs to reach out to SMU Pony Nation and Students and convince all of us that he is excited to be coaching the Mustangs and wants/needs their support for every game.

Second, most importantly, is to demonstrate that recruiting is Job # 1. Turner is not the problem. JJ has the FB chops/skills but apparently does not view the above two contributions as his job. They are!

[SMU2007]

Blows my mind that people think June is going to act differently in year 7. We know what we have with him and we knowingly extended him for 3 years. Nothing is going to be different as long as he is here

[redpony]

Blows my mind that people think June is going to act differently in year 7. We know what we have with him and we knowingly extended him for 3 years. Nothing is going to be different as long as he is here

yes- something will be different- there will be a lot fewer people in the stands.