SMU’s June Jones ranked behind Larry Coker and Dan McCarney

[sbsmith]

What were the records of the teams playing Hawaii the year he went 12-0? That will tell you if it is smoke and mirrors.

vs. Northern Colorado- FCS (1-11)
at Louisiana Tech- 5-7
at UNLV- 2-10
vs. Charleston Southern- FCS (5-6)
at Idaho- 1-11
vs. Utah State- 2-10
at San Jose State- 5-7
vs. New Mexico State- 4-9
vs. Fresno State- 9-4
at Nevada- 6-7
vs. Boise State- 10-3
vs. Washington- 4-9


Combined Opponent's Record: 54-94 (36.4%)


#smokeandmirrors

[Grant Carter]

oh really you don't think a 69%-31% advantage in home games has any relevance. Why don't you find SMU's home/away record over the last 6 years and project what SMU's record would be with such a ratio. Hawaii had good teams before June Jones. Fred Von Appen sucked just like a lot of coaches that get fired. In fact, the evidence suggests that that von Appen was the exception not the rule

1979–1986 [deleted] Tomey 52–35–3
1987–1995 Bob Wagner 58–49–3
1996–1998 Fred von Appen 5–31

My question was whether they were playing 69% home games before he got there when they were struggling. If they were, then playing 69% home games when he was there was not a change and thus the improvement would be unrelated to that percentage. Not sure how you got from my question to anything about smu's record.

[redpony]

interesting that he only beat two teams with winning records. Seems kind of similar to what he has done here.
Guess it is easier to beat the 'beaten down' teams than face real competition aka former SWC conference mates and top 50 teams.

[Stallion]

oh really you don't think a 69%-31% advantage in home games has any relevance. Why don't you find SMU's home/away record over the last 6 years and project what SMU's record would be with such a ratio. Hawaii had good teams before June Jones. Fred Von Appen sucked just like a lot of coaches that get fired. In fact, the evidence suggests that that von Appen was the exception not the rule

1979–1986 [deleted] Tomey 52–35–3
1987–1995 Bob Wagner 58–49–3
1996–1998 Fred von Appen 5–31

My question was whether they were playing 69% home games before he got there when they were struggling. If they were, then playing 69% home games when he was there was not a change and thus the improvement would be unrelated to that percentage. Not sure how you got from my question to anything about smu's record.

You want to compare him to one of the worst coaches in NCAA History. I'm not going to do that especially since Hawaii had enjoyed long term success before Von Appen . I'm pointing out June's record at Hawaii was inflated by a heavy dose of home games which equals to approximately 1 extra victory per season than he would have had playing the balance of home/away games he has at SMU.

[Grant Carter]

oh really you don't think a 69%-31% advantage in home games has any relevance. Why don't you find SMU's home/away record over the last 6 years and project what SMU's record would be with such a ratio. Hawaii had good teams before June Jones. Fred Von Appen sucked just like a lot of coaches that get fired. In fact, the evidence suggests that that von Appen was the exception not the rule

1979–1986 [deleted] Tomey 52–35–3
1987–1995 Bob Wagner 58–49–3
1996–1998 Fred von Appen 5–31

My question was whether they were playing 69% home games before he got there when they were struggling. If they were, then playing 69% home games when he was there was not a change and thus the improvement would be unrelated to that percentage. Not sure how you got from my question to anything about smu's record.

You want to compare him to one of the worst coaches in NCAA History. I'm not going to do that especially since Hawaii had enjoyed long term success before Von Appen . I'm pointing out June's record at Hawaii was inflated by a heavy dose of home games which equals to approximately 1 extra victory per season than he would have had playing the balance of home/away games he has at SMU.

I just asked the question which still has not been answered. I had no idea who the coach was before him. I saw ponyboy say their record was terrible for some period of time (I am not sure what the time period was) and then it was better under June. You seemed to attribute the improvement to the large percentage of home games (unless I misunderstood) which would only make sense to me if they changed their scheduling to have more home games under him than they did previously.

I absolutely agree that a large percentage of home games contributes to a better record.

Also, thank you for using the quote feature, it makes it much easier to follow posts.

[ponyboy]

Ok, we can play that game. Let's ignore von Appen. And let's ignore the last couple of seasons under Wagner.

From the time they started playing football in 1909 until the time JJ took over, Hawaii won 56% of its games, good for a #49 ranking in win percentage. In the nine seasons under JJ, Hawaii won 65% of its games, good for #24 in win percentage.

Smoke and mirrors?

[Lebanese4Life]

please get off June's lap.

bottom line is we are an average team at best with him at the helm. the sooner he's out the quicker the program will progress

[PlanoStang]

81. David Bailiff, Rice

Bailiff has 2 of the much coveted on here 10 win seasons at Rice. He is ranked a full 12 positions
behind JJ

[PlanoStang]

please get off June's lap.

bottom line is we are an average team at best with him at the helm. the sooner he's out the quicker the program will progress

See Bennett. 18 - 52. I'm sure someone said the same about Cavan

[JasonB]

What were the records of the teams playing Hawaii the year he went 12-0? That will tell you if it is smoke and mirrors.

vs. Northern Colorado- FCS (1-11)
at Louisiana Tech- 5-7
at UNLV- 2-10
vs. Charleston Southern- FCS (5-6)
at Idaho- 1-11
vs. Utah State- 2-10
at San Jose State- 5-7
vs. New Mexico State- 4-9
vs. Fresno State- 9-4
at Nevada- 6-7
vs. Boise State- 10-3
vs. Washington- 4-9


Combined Opponent's Record: 54-94 (36.4%)


#smokeandmirrors

Sure, we can say that. I think we can also say with confidence that if Hawaii played A&M, Baylor, and TCU out of conference, they end the year 9-3 at best, and nobody is talking about hawaii.

This should be example number 1 of schedule easy, get the wins, and then build a program off of that. To June's credit, he knows he built the Hawaii program on a lot of home games and a crappy schedule. When you schedule bad teams, they are forced to play you at home. Both of those aspects feed off of each other.

Sure, it would be a little annoying to watch us play bad football games - just like in basketball watching us beat rhode island by 30 was so boring. But with the schedule above, if we were 8-0 heading into the Fresno game, it doesnt matter who we played. The game would be hyped by the media and ford would sell out.

Start with an easy schedule, get to 10 wins, and then schedule difficult. It really isn't that hard of a concept to get across. I'm not saying June shouldn't have done more by now. But regardless of whether June is here or we get a new coach next season, that should really be the mantra from here on out until we can prove we can get a 10 win season against a weak schedule.

[mrydel]

I just cannot believe 6 years into a staff we are saying schedule easy to build for the future. Some of us are nearing death waiting for us to play with the big boys AGAIN.

[HorsePower]

please get off June's lap.

bottom line is we are an average team at best with him at the helm. the sooner he's out the quicker the program will progress

And you please put down the pitchfork and torch.
There's a happy medium here somewhere.

[couch 'em]

Ok, we can play that game. Let's ignore von Appen. And let's ignore the last couple of seasons under Wagner.

From the time they started playing football in 1909 until the time JJ took over, Hawaii won 56% of its games, good for a #49 ranking in win percentage. In the nine seasons under JJ, Hawaii won 65% of its games, good for #24 in win percentage.

Smoke and mirrors?

But who did they play?

http://www.jhowell.net/cf/scores/Hawaii.htm

[Big12Mustang]

A lot of crappy things happened to our program. We didn't expect for 1)BU to actually be good in Football, 2) A&M to go into the SEC and 3) TCU to win a Rose Bowl and then join Big 12, 4) the Big East to implode

We thought that OOC schedule was going to be a piece of cake vs. a really bad Baylor, mediocre Aggy, and Mountain West TCU.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sbsmith]

Sure, we can say that. I think we can also say with confidence that if Hawaii played A&M, Baylor, and TCU out of conference, they end the year 9-3 at best, and nobody is talking about hawaii.

This should be example number 1 of schedule easy, get the wins, and then build a program off of that. To June's credit, he knows he built the Hawaii program on a lot of home games and a crappy schedule. When you schedule bad teams, they are forced to play you at home. Both of those aspects feed off of each other.

Sure, it would be a little annoying to watch us play bad football games - just like in basketball watching us beat rhode island by 30 was so boring. But with the schedule above, if we were 8-0 heading into the Fresno game, it doesnt matter who we played. The game would be hyped by the media and ford would sell out.

Start with an easy schedule, get to 10 wins, and then schedule difficult. It really isn't that hard of a concept to get across. I'm not saying June shouldn't have done more by now. But regardless of whether June is here or we get a new coach next season, that should really be the mantra from here on out until we can prove we can get a 10 win season against a weak schedule.

Let's not forget that Hawaii had a lot of close calls against crappy competition that year. They were an overrated team just waiting to be exposed and Georgia did just that in the Sugar Bowl. So Hawaii got a little pub from beating up on nobodies but all anyone remembers from that team is them getting destroyed in their final game of the season. That season didn't build a program for them at all, it built an illusion that dissipated once they faced a real team. Let's also not forget that we don't have Hawaii's homefield advantage. Plus with our declining talent level it's likely we drop a game or two even against a weak OOC slate. So what's your plan going to be then, drop to FCS?

The mantra from here on out should be to recruit legit talent and beat relevant competition. We fix our talent problem and we won't have to be scared of playing anyone. It really isn't that hard of a concept to get across if you actually want what's best for SMU Football instead of what's easiest.