Knee-jerk reaction - are we finished?

[couch 'em]

Very foolish for all involved to view each team as a separate product instead of viewing the larger context of college football as the product. Even Texas could lack fans if college football drops in popularity

[ideal]

Agree.

very disappointed in Baylor and TCU choosing opportunism

[PonyKris89]

Very foolish for all involved to view each team as a separate product instead of viewing the larger context of college football as the product. Even Texas could lack fans if college football drops in popularity

IGGZACKLEY! The depth and diversity in college athletics and opportunities for the great many keeps everyone engaged in college athletics. The P5 limiting the playground will only hurt all involved including themselves in the long run.

[Topper]

Very foolish for all involved to view each team as a separate product instead of viewing the larger context of college football as the product. Even Texas could lack fans if college football drops in popularity

IGGZACKLEY! The depth and diversity in college athletics and opportunities for the great many keeps everyone engaged in college athletics. The P5 limiting the playground will only hurt all involved including themselves in the long run.

The goal of college athletics should be to increase the opportunity for kids to participate. Congress or the courts should stand up to the P5 and insist on a level playing field for the largest number of programs possible. There is no reason that a kid who wants an education at SMU or Rice or Tulane should not be able to compete in athletics on the same level as a kid who goes to a diploma mill state school.

[PoconoPony]

The term " student athlete" is now dead and the term " athlete student" is appropriate. At the same time we still do not know about the impact of the Northwestern vote to unionize. The P5 teams will be the main target of unionizing then the chaos begins. Some may unionize and other will not. Some will push the envelope to pay more than others and this will impact recruiting....etc. Bottom line is that in 15 years college football could become no longer interesting to college fans because its appeal right now is school loyalty and not the individual players. Fans will view teams as not really connected to the school any more and more as semi-pro teams whose objective is professional football and not academics. If this happens the fan will turn away from interest in the college sponsored pro teams to the NFL. I think the NFL is the big winner after everything shakes out.

[covok48]

ESPN did a cynical number on us, continually pounding us with half truths to promote their sinister agenda, and worse not paying royalties, bastards.
We were the scapegoat for all the garbage that now is unfolding.
Where is the go-go 80's context, where is the supervailing political intrigue to use us to bring down the Republican Party in Texas.
We always were very competitive. The SWC was the SEC of its time. UT was king of the hill at the time, like Alabama, and controlled a mega state apparatus to promote the whorens.
As always, we attracted the best kids, and we believed in the academic ideal.
Have no doubt, we were targeted to bring low. The dp was put in to kill us. Because Charles Alan Wright and friends were afraid we would continue to dominate and destroy their plans.
We are unique, not because of what we did, but because of what they hung on us.
It is naive to believe we were the only school helping players. Everyone did that, incl. ut, am, lsu, ark, and ND. We did not drop the dime on other programs for complex reasons.
Continuing to blame us and use us as a posterboy is criminal.
The Big12 commish said 35% of the top schools now cheat, and he used that to promote the idea they have to legalize it to avoid "problems", well these schools have been doing the same thing for 50 years. That is how they built their dynasties, which ncaa countenanced.
Now the reality has been exposed for all to see, we can mix it up with the best of them, as long as we have an equal shot at the tv money, as a source for marketing bucks.
The only question is, has the dp actually killed us, or do we maintain the energy and will to win.

I don't mean to pick on you but I wouldn't call 2-3 winning seasons a decade competitive in the SWC. Yes we had a good run in the early 80's but we were cheating our asses off & until the SWC disbanded our play had fallen off a cliff in an already bad conference at that point.

But like others have said, this decision combined with the concussion/ injury lawsuits happening now will only hurt CFB popularity and viability in the future which may present us an opportunity later if we want to take it.

Then again we might be happy being a good basketball school at that point, who knows.

[ideal]

When football was a sport, we were very competitive, one of the stronger teams in the best conference in the country. When other programs started cheating their asses off we backed off somewhat (the '70s), but were still good. We're talking about the top teams in the country. We have a rich and storied history. Of course after they hammered us, we collapsed, not our fault.
We have a billion dollar brand, better think [deleted] that.
I don't see anyone hammering pedo state for crimes, that national championship was awarded to pedo paterno as a favor, we deserve it, it's ours.
Cheating in my book is when you provide false grades, and fictitious courses for ringers, I don't see anyone getting hammered for that. We aren't phony ponies, we're straight up.
If the ncaa investigated the real bad actors thoroughly, you know many top programs would go down.
No need to revise history, but for the dp, we'd be at the top of quality football teams, time to put that behind us, and be given the opportunity to reestablish us, and our conference.

[ideal]

the impact of the Northwestern vote to unionize.

This is what pushed the autonomy vote, imo. The NLRB held that players for private
universities are employees, not state schools. It is interesting that private schools could have an advantage by forming collective bargaining units for players, and paying them. Only fair, because in every other way the ncaa favors large state schools.
Private universities could even have a conference formed as a corporation to pay all conf. players as one collective bargaining unit. Interesting times.

[mr. pony]

ESPN did a cynical number on us, continually pounding us with half truths to promote their sinister agenda, and worse not paying royalties, bastards.
We were the scapegoat for all the garbage that now is unfolding.
Where is the go-go 80's context, where is the supervailing political intrigue to use us to bring down the Republican Party in Texas.
We always were very competitive. The SWC was the SEC of its time. UT was king of the hill at the time, like Alabama, and controlled a mega state apparatus to promote the whorens.
As always, we attracted the best kids, and we believed in the academic ideal.
Have no doubt, we were targeted to bring low. The dp was put in to kill us. Because Charles Alan Wright and friends were afraid we would continue to dominate and destroy their plans.
We are unique, not because of what we did, but because of what they hung on us.
It is naive to believe we were the only school helping players. Everyone did that, incl. ut, am, lsu, ark, and ND. We did not drop the dime on other programs for complex reasons.
Continuing to blame us and use us as a posterboy is criminal.
The Big12 commish said 35% of the top schools now cheat, and he used that to promote the idea they have to legalize it to avoid "problems", well these schools have been doing the same thing for 50 years. That is how they built their dynasties, which ncaa countenanced.
Now the reality has been exposed for all to see, we can mix it up with the best of them, as long as we have an equal shot at the tv money, as a source for marketing bucks.
The only question is, has the dp actually killed us, or do we maintain the energy and will to win.

I don't mean to pick on you but I wouldn't call 2-3 winning seasons a decade competitive in the SWC. Yes we had a good run in the early 80's but we were cheating our asses off & until the SWC disbanded our play had fallen off a cliff in an already bad conference at that point.

But like others have said, this decision combined with the concussion/ injury lawsuits happening now will only hurt CFB popularity and viability in the future which may present us an opportunity later if we want to take it.

Then again we might be happy being a good basketball school at that point, who knows.

Being fourth overall all-time in SWC wins, the best-record private school, is "being competitive."

And, BTW, Schmedrick, EVERYBODY was "cheating their asses off."
Still are.

[covok48]

Then again we might be happy being a good basketball school at that point, who knows.

Being fourth overall all-time in SWC wins, the best-record private school, is "being competitive."

And, BTW, Schmedrick, EVERYBODY was "cheating their asses off."
Still are.

I like your spirit. But 4th overall wins in a conference that had 9 teams in its peak (and less before 1972) puts us mid-tier at best and I haven't even gone back to validate your assertion.

But our win-loss record by season isn't impressive and my point is that we've had a hard time being more than a flash in the pan now and then if we weren't cheating on the same level as the other guys.

I'm just this upset about this decision as you, but I have to question whether we are (or ever were) built for big time college football, or if we just had an extraordinary bout of good luck to be in the right place at the right time during the SWC days.

I think we have start questioning that now before future resource commitments (or lack thereof) force our hand.

[jpe747]

I've been thinking about this quite a bit and I believe the PONYS will do quite well if SMU takes the gloves off. If all else fails why not play by our rules?

[ideal]

Then again we might be happy being a good basketball school at that point, who knows...
But 4th overall wins in a conference that had 9 teams in its peak puts us mid-tier at best and I haven't even gone back to validate your assertion.

... my point is that we've had a hard time being more than a flash in the pan now and then if we weren't cheating...

... I have to question whether we are (or ever were) built for big time college football,..

I think we have start questioning that now before future resource commitments (or lack thereof) force our hand.

They say ignorance is bliss ...
what drivel! we get plenty of this nonsense from outsiders, wtf

[Treadway21]

Definitely. We haven't been competitive post DP cause we chose not be competitive. This guy really doesn't know much about SMU Football history.

[covok48]

Then again we might be happy being a good basketball school at that point, who knows...
But 4th overall wins in a conference that had 9 teams in its peak puts us mid-tier at best and I haven't even gone back to validate your assertion.

... my point is that we've had a hard time being more than a flash in the pan now and then if we weren't cheating...

... I have to question whether we are (or ever were) built for big time college football,..

I think we have start questioning that now before future resource commitments (or lack thereof) force our hand.

They say ignorance is bliss ...
what drivel! we get plenty of this nonsense from outsiders, wtf

Ok fine then we'll just go with your logic that we have always been awesome in football & always would be if it wasn't for that meddling UT. And it's all ESPN/ Big 12/ Democrat's fault for keeping us down all these years. And we're just one season away from returning to our top 5 form from 3 decades ago.

I guess I sound like some 'outsider' but goddamn this [deleted] gets really old year after year on this board. Most rational people understand that "everyone is doing it" is still not a valid defense no matter how sorry they feel for us.

[Grant Carter]

[quote="ideal"]

Then again we might be happy being a good basketball school at that point, who knows.

Being fourth overall all-time in SWC wins, the best-record private school, is "being competitive."

And, BTW, Schmedrick, EVERYBODY was "cheating their asses off."
Still are.

I like your spirit. But 4th overall wins in a conference that had 9 teams in its peak (and less before 1972) puts us mid-tier at best and I haven't even gone back to validate your assertion.

But our win-loss record by season isn't impressive and my point is that we've had a hard time being more than a flash in the pan now and then if we weren't cheating on the same level as the other guys.

I'm just this upset about this decision as you, but I have to question whether we are (or ever were) built for big time college football, or if we just had an extraordinary bout of good luck to be in the right place at the right time during the SWC days.

I think we have start questioning that now before future resource commitments (or lack thereof) force our hand.[/quote]
If it is mid tier at best, what do you think it is at worst?