SMU Fan Thoughts On The Pac 12 After Today?

[Dukie]

Why does everyone keep mentioning Rice in these new scenarios? Being associated with Rice does not help SMU.

A lot of insane things being thrown around. PAC already did their vetting. There will be no Rice, much less Buffalo. Maybe take enough off the MWC to obliterate it and avoid that payout.

[Topper]

Why does everyone keep mentioning Rice in these new scenarios? Being associated with Rice does not help SMU.

TCU admittedly did well all by themselves and thinking only of themselves, as they should have, when they were in the MWC. But there is no guarantee that long term being alone on that island would have continued to be the best option for them. I feel that 3 is the maximum amount of schools that can be in the same state in the same conference before it becomes harmful to those schools and the conference. So 4 in the Big 12 is a bad idea and has been forever and Houston was a horrible mistake to add. The SWC was going to be a disaster no matter what. Four Texas teams in the AAC is a disaster. Four NC teams in the ACC is detrimental. Four teams from Florida in the SEC or ACC would be horrible. Five teams in Ohio in the MAC is extremely bad. Four Texas teams in the CUSA is bad and 4 California teams in the PAC 8-12 has always been bad.

With that said a single team in Texas in a conference that has to have members on the far west coast, in the eastern part of Mountain Time, and possibly into Central Time or even Eastern Time is going to be problematic. TCU had the advantage of being the unique team that was not one of the 4 Texas teams in the Big 12 or one of the bunch of Texas teams in the CUSA. In addition UTEP and north Texas state were wondering out in the wilderness and north Texas state especially was totally sucking. Texas State and UTSA were not in D1-A or in the case of UTSA even playing football. Sam Houston had not stupidly moved up and Houston and SMU were lost in the CUSA and just, barely, going through the motions.

So TCU did not have a lot of competition and being unique while actually investing in athletics paid off for them while others wandered aimlessly. Or in the case of Houston cried about Texas and vilified Baylor and Tech for taking action while investing nothing in their program and playing in dumps for facilities and demanding to be let into the Big 12.

Today is a lot different situation and you are still having to deal with the academic snobbery of Cal and Stanford that are simply not going to go down the list and add Boise, UNLV, Fresno, Memphis, SMU, and two more randos that have some "recruiting grounds", some fleeting success, or some short term academic side subsidies to inflate their budget.

I am not sure who you think is available, much less that meets any academic criteria that Cal and Stanford will want or that is not so far flung the conference would be senseless.

Are you thinking that:

Stanford
Cal
WSU
Oregon State
SDSU
CSU
SMU
Temple
Buffalo
UConn
USF
Air Force

Is that going to work?

Or:

Stanford
Cal
WSU
Oregon State
SDSU
Fresno
SJSU
UNLV
CSU
Air Force
Boise
SMU

Or sub out Nevada for SJSU. Are you excited by that?

Or:

Cal
Stanford
WSU
Oregon State
CSU
SDSU
Memphis
USF
Temple
Tulane
UConn
Tulsa

If you are starting with:

Cal
Stanford
WSU
Oregon State
SMU

Well there is five. Who is next out of Boise, Nevada, UNLV, SJSU, Temple, Tulane, Tulsa, Memphis, USF, UConn, Rice, Hawaii, Fresno, CSU, New Mexico, Air Force, Army, or Navy?

Every single one of them comes with at least one fan base asking "what why them" of not several asking that. From there you are getting into Buffalo, ECU, Wyoming, ECU, NIU, NMSU, Utah State, UTSA, or God forbid north Texas state if you are trying to talk about something academic, Buffalo, or some perception of "markets", NIU that do not exist, or again God forbid "potential".

I am pretty sure that if SMU tries to push to be a singular program on their own island in Texas there is a better than average chance that others will push to have a pair in their area or a small group in their larger geographic area and a single team on an island might find themselves alone on that island and not in the PAC X. Or worse yet still slumming with the "sleeping giant that everyone is scared of" in Denton.

No, I'm thinking that Florida State and Clemson are going to figure a way out of their current arrangement and that UVA and UNC may be goners as well. The ACC has a better chance of surviving with it's leftovers. They will need to backfill and SMU, Tulane, and Memphis State are at the ready. Am I wrong but doesnt the AAC have a better media payout than the MWC?

[Charleston Pony]

I know most on this board don't like the AAC and Aresco, but given all that has transpired recently, I have to give him credit for reacting the way he did after the loss of Cincy, Houston & UCF. Expanding to 14 schools with a focus on schools in metro areas may prove to have been a wise move, depending on whether several new members will step up their commitments to fielding stronger teams. Hopefully SMU will do it's part in making the AAC more relevant and competitive with Top 25 programs.

Our reality is that P5 inclusion, soon to become P4 is not in our near future. If FSU and Clemson find a way out of the ACC and the ACC decides to expand it's membership into the Central Time Zone, let's just hope SMU becomes the most attractive prospective member available...if and when that opportunity ever arises.

[Hop Sing]

SMU needs to stand pat and hope for a future ACC lifeboat. I sincerely hope that we aren't contemplating joining a cobbled together misfit new Pac whatever now. There is nothing left and nothing that can be put together that will be better than our current sad home. Surely we learned something from our days in the WAC.

[rodrod5]

SMU needs to stand pat and hope for a future ACC lifeboat. I sincerely hope that we aren't contemplating joining a cobbled together misfit new Pac whatever now. There is nothing left and nothing that can be put together that will be better than our current sad home. Surely we learned something from our days in the WAC.

I am not sure what you are thinking was learned by the time in the WAC. Look at the program across the way TCU. They jumped from the WAC to CUSA and then when the WAC broke up they were ask over to the MWC while SMU, Houston, and Rice that had "stood pat" in the WAC moved over to a CUSA that just got worse and worse. TCU then had a choice of saying in the MWC that was going to lose Utah or going to a cobbled together Big East. They took the risk on the Big East and before even playing a down they were ask to the Big 12. While SMU and Houston, and then eventually Rice went to what is now the AAC. SMU, UH and Rice were left behind by the MWC airport meeters and and greeters and went to the CUSA while TCU that had ditched the WAC was ask to the MWC out of the CUSA.

The point being that one person's "lets stand pat and wait" is another person's "lets always be mobile and at least having the perception of improvement and showing that we are ready to act". One needs to recall that during the time of the BCS there was a way for a conference to possibly lose an autobid especially the Big East. And the MWC was breathing down the neck of the Big East to claim their autobid until Utah was pulled away by the PAC 10.

TCU still made the move though because the perception was there of the Big East ending up stronger at that point. Yes TCU probably would have still received the Big 12 invite out of the MWC if they had not shown a willingness to jump to the Big East especially with Louisville making it clear they were going to wait the full 3 years to exit and that not working for The Big 12, but perhaps Cincinnati could have tried harder for that spot and would have been a pair for WVU.

In addition the Big East was in line to get much better money than the MWC until their clown commissioner at the time decided to "go to market" and made ESPN mad and found no other serious bidders.

SMU and their leadership needs to be ready to move and even if things look break even they need to evaluate perception and as of now I think that goes to a rebuilt PAC. I do not think the ACC is going to fall apart as soon or as fast as people think and any PAC deal is going to be VERY short term probably 5 years. So SMU will have all the chance they need to go to the ACC or somewhere else if something happens there. I am not sure there will be a lot locking the PAC together for a 5 year deal either because Cal and Stanford are still delusional and will probably not want a GOR and instead will go for a simple exit fee.

Movement makes things happen being complacent makes you wake up in a place you wish you were not.

[Hop Sing]

SMU, TCU and Rice should have joined Houston in the newly formed CUSA. East beats West every time when it comes to sports because of time zones and eyeballs. You are forgetting that when the 3 former SWC mates got shafted and left to die in the depleted WAC, TCU caught lightning in a bottle with La Danian Tomlinson and coach Patterson. Winning allowed them to jump to a superior CUSA and then MWC that was much superior than the current version. It had Utah and BYU and TCU continued to WIN! We just need to win and do it quickly right where we are. Stanford and Cal don't give two shitts about sports and have been living off of UCLA, USC, Oregon etc. The very LAST thing we need is to join another misfit conference out west. Thats the lesson I hope we learned.

[mustangxc]

Any time you can associate yourself with better peers you do so. Whenever the Pac-12 send us an invite we need to accept and I believe we will. 4 Pac teams remain. grab the best 2 MWC teams which are SDSU and some other team and depending on how big the conference will be, grab SMU along with 5 more teams to form an eastern division or SMU SDSU and 4 others to get to 10. Keep it compact so we add the strongest programs in the best markets available such that we secure a spot in the playoff every season and don't dilute the payout too much.

[rodrod5]

SMU, TCU and Rice should have joined Houston in the newly formed CUSA. East beats West every time when it comes to sports because of time zones and eyeballs. You are forgetting that when the 3 former SWC mates got shafted and left to die in the depleted WAC, TCU caught lightning in a bottle with La Danian Tomlinson and coach Patterson. Winning allowed them to jump to a superior CUSA and then MWC that was much superior than the current version. It had Utah and BYU and TCU continued to WIN! We just need to win and do it quickly right where we are. Stanford and Cal don't give two shitts about sports and have been living off of UCLA, USC, Oregon etc. The very LAST thing we need is to join another misfit conference out west. Thats the lesson I hope we learned.

TCU made the decision to move away from SMU, Houston, and Rice on purpose. All three of them were obsessed with crying about the SWC and big mean Texas. SMU was clearly offering athletics "because" after the death penalty, Rice was doing nothing to invest in anything, and Houston had trash facilities and a horrible administration. All three of those programs thought that being together, being former members of the SWC, and being in Texas made someone care about them or made them desirable. What it really made them was just three pieces of dead weight that all offered basically the same thing for recruits in Texas to not want any part of. No commitment to athletics, being in a big city, losing a lot, and the same conference to do that in.

TCU offered something different and that was a chance to at least have an option to play in different places than what SMU, Houston, and Rice were going to be playing in and of course TCU offered a chance to play for a program that was at least going to try and compete.

TCU jumped from the WAC in 2001 LT played there from 1997 to 2000 so TCU had the start of that winning while still in the WAC with the three others. They were smart enough to jump from the WAC after that winning to differentiate themselves in 2001 which was 4 years before SMU and Rice moved to CUSA. Then in 2005 when those two came to the CUSA TCU was smart enough to have no concerns about "west vs east" and said they wanted no part of being lumped back in with stagnating dead weight X3 and they went right back out west and had their most successful seasons until last year out west in the MWC.

Houston was in "the east" from the beginning in CUSA and even as a large public university, with walk through the door admissions at the time, and in a major recruiting grounds they did absolutely nothing. The Oilers had left town so they had no football competition other than Rice, they let their basketball stroke out in a "basketball focused" conference and their facilities went to hell. TCU popped in for four years, had two seasons with 10 wins of better and ranked, two seasons that were meh, and GTFO ASAP when something better called and the other two "going through the motions in Texas" programs showed up.

Houston that had been "in the east" that entire time before TCU showed up. From 1996 when Houston started "in the east" in CUSA until 2001 when TCU showed up and then until 2004 when TCU left after 2004. Houston had 2 winning seasons all that were 7 wins, a 6-6 season, no bowl wins, and no ranked seasons and their record was 38-67. TCU had a 10 win season, an 11 win season and a 6-6 and 5-6 season with 1 bowl win and two ranked seasons. The record for TCU was 32-16. So TCU had 6 fewer wins in 4 seasons in the CUSA than Houston had in twice as many, 8, seasons in CUSA and one more bowl win and two more ranked seasons. So much for being in the east helping them.

You do not concern yourself with "east or west" you concern yourself with making sure that you are perceived as a program that actively moves to take advantage of what perception says is the best opportunity for you. The AAC is a place to stagnate now. What happens with the ACC is not going to happen over night or probably for a few years at the soonest. The PAC 12 is seen as something really bad right now, but when the best of the available teams move there it will be seen as the best available option for those teams and those teams will be seen as better than those that did not move. Period. SMU needs to move and be ready to keep moving or they can sit and wait for the ACC and see it possibly never happen or it might play out dramatically different than most people think and not in the favor of SMU or those that waited.

[Hop Sing]

TCU consistently beat the big boys and got Ft Worth behind them. If they had joined CUSA originally it would have saved them some jumping.

Stanford isn’t participating in NIL and is going to see recruiting drop lIke a rock without the PAC to prop them up. The NEW PAC is fools gold even if it comes to fruition

[Charleston Pony]

IIRC when the SWC broke up and SMU, TCU, Rice & Houston were looking for a new home, all but Houston jumped at the WAC offer. The Cougs went to CUSA which had only 6 football playing members which meant Houston had an opportunity to put together an attractive non-conference schedule playing "name brands" to help finance their football program. Cable TV changed everything and college athletics was all about $$$ and exposure but SMU, still reeling from the death penalty just didn't seem to understand that. Remember Ken Pye was not a fan of college athletics and would have preferred we just play intramural or club sports.

I know the west coasters hate hearing this but as an east coaster, I much prefer SMU playing most of it's games in the Central and Eastern time zones for exposure purposes. As my west coast brothers and friends tell me, "breakfast/brunch ball" is an adjustment but playing too many games with a 10:00 PM Eastern start is a path to irrelevance. I just hope our big money donors remain committed no matter what our conference affiliation might be

[Dukie]

Any time you can associate yourself with better peers you do so. Whenever the Pac-12 send us an invite we need to accept and I believe we will. 4 Pac teams remain. grab the best 2 MWC teams which are SDSU and some other team and depending on how big the conference will be, grab SMU along with 5 more teams to form an eastern division or SMU SDSU and 4 others to get to 10. Keep it compact so we add the strongest programs in the best markets available such that we secure a spot in the playoff every season and don't dilute the payout too much.

No divisions. 10 at most. Putting SMU in a division separate from the PAC remains would defeat the whole purpose.

[mustangxc]

For 10 I would like:

Stanford
Cal
WSU
OSU
SDSU
SMU
Memphis
Boise State
Navy/Gonzaga
Colorado State or Utah State or Fresno State or Tulane or Rice or UNLV

[Dukie]

For 10 I would like:

Stanford
Cal
WSU
OSU
SDSU
SMU
Memphis
Boise State
Tulane
UNLV

My 10 would be how I’ve edited above.

[redpony]

Any ideas on what is going to happen with the PAC? are the remaining teams just going to fold and give up or do they want to add enough other teams to become viable again? Obviously they would need a new media deal and perhaps even a new commissioner.
I suspect time is of the essence.

[AusTxPony]

Would something like this work?
WSU, OSU, Boise, UNLV
Standford, Cal, Fresno, SDSU
CSU, AFA, Army/Gonzaga, Navy/St. Mary's
SMU, UTSA, Tulane, Memphis
Seems to me to have enough value to be #5 Conference.