Reality Check

[RednBlue11]

Say, Pug. How much did Texas Tech dominate the SWC?

Should they step back, reassess their goals?

If Texas Tech were a relatively small, private school, were not in a P5 conference, had suffered the DP, had an apparently tiny fanbase, had to compete for attention with professional sports and other random entertainment, and had wandered in the collegiate-football desert for over twenty years, I would say, yes, it should probably reassess its goals, regardless of its W-L record in the old SWC.

Apples and oranges.

smoking really strong drugs

[Pugilistic Pony]

This argument about not being a P5 school, not having resources etc.etc. is so old and stale. What would you think if your attorney told you that he lost your case because the other attorneys firm was a lot bigger and had more resources?

I would think it was probably true, and I would wish I had more money and could afford a bigger law firm with more resources. Happens all the time. I cite the "affluenza" case over in Ft. Worth. Do you think if a poor brown kid had killed four people while DUI, he would have gotten probation? I think usually the greatest money and resources triumphs, but then, I'm old and cynical.

Y'all go ahead and pee into the wind with your grand hopes and schemes for our football program. I wish you well.....I really do. Who knows, maybe your naivete will win out and succeed. If that were to happen, no one would be happier than this pony fan. I might have to take some high-blood-pressure medicine.

[ponyboy]

Suck was before he got here.

And if this season is any indication suck is back though suck versus relevant competition never really left.

Ok, call it suck. We suck far, far, far less than the average suckage in the twenty years before June. I'm so sorry to attempt to tear down your world, but this is true.

[SMUer]

Nope. Very minor variance in hue of suck IMO. Perhaps rose-colored glasses are throwing off your abilities to distinguish between them?

[ponyboy]

Please read this carefully.

In the 20 years before June Jones got here, we were ranked #113 in terms of win percentage. Out of 117 teams.

Here are the numbers from 2008 through 2012 (Stassen doesn't have 2013 numbers loaded yet):

2008: Tied for 116 out of 118
2009: Tied for 34th out of 118
2010: Tied for 62nd out of 119
2011: Tied for 34th out of 116
2012: Tied for 58th out of 124

That a significant reduction in suckage my friend.

[Treadway21]

This argument about not being a P5 school, not having resources etc.etc. is so old and stale. What would you think if your attorney told you that he lost your case because the other attorneys firm was a lot bigger and had more resources?

I would think it was probably true, and I would wish I had more money and could afford a bigger law firm with more resources. Happens all the time. I cite the "affluenza" case over in Ft. Worth. Do you think if a poor brown kid had killed four people while DUI, he would have gotten probation? I think usually the greatest money and resources triumphs, but then, I'm old and cynical.

Y'all go ahead and pee into the wind with your grand hopes and schemes for our football program. I wish you well.....I really do. Who knows, maybe your naivete will win out and succeed. If that were to happen, no one would be happier than this pony fan. I might have to take some high-blood-pressure medicine.

Perfect so you think this product is the best we can do. Most of us think we can do better and should at least try to do better.

Why go to games if you think we cannot do any better the 7-5 6-6 or 5-7? Yes, by all means be happy and enjoy going to ford to watch the games with 10k of you best friends. Enjoy beating the Montana States of the world to pad our record.

That, my friend, is not a "sustainable" model in today's world of college football.


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[PlanoStang]

Actually recruiting, and attendance have been improving over the past 11 -12 years

2002 18,292
2003 17,435
2004 17,706
2005 18,630
2006 15,428
2007 17,171
---------------------------------
2008 19,780
2009 21,348
2010 23,515
2011 20,894
2012 attendance SMU, 21,292, +2%.



SMU TCU

2002 #69 #80
2003 #62 #69
2004 #144 #89
2005 #82 #54
2006 #110 #60
2007 #99 #81

2008 #91 #97
2009 #81 #46
2010 #76 #46
2011 #50 #26
2012 #90 #37
2013 #71 #30
2014 #80 #73

[redpony]

I guess that just goes to show that the real fans will come out with expectations that things really will get better. Watch the drop off next year when the fans realize the charlatan will hopefully be gone soon and is leaving us with a major void in talent.

[dbone]

Briefly looking at Vanderbilt's record in the SEC vs. ours in the SWC...I think we look better.

Briefly looking at Stanford's record in the PAC vs. ours in the SWC...I think we look better.

Interesting and historically gratifying, perhaps, but the SWC ended in 1996. What does that now have to do with the price of tea in China? Vanderbilt is STILL in the SEC, and Stanford is STILL in the PAC. We are on the outside of P5 looking in.

I thought your point was historical...my point was that within a historically significant conference...we were more relevant than two other smaller privates in their conferences. And today those two schools are able to compete with the big boys.

If your point was that the only way to compete today (regardless of history or resources) is to be in a P5 conference...I misunderstood.

[PonyKris89]

Sometimes, we were respectable, but we only occasionally dominated.

… actually, most of the time we were respectable, and we occasionally dominated and that makes most of us ole SMU fans proud! … and that's what we crave, occasional domination.
There are not many runs like the SMU 6 year run in the 80's… four out of six years we beat Texas, gave them a couple of severe [deleted] kickings, and the two times we lost were heartbreakers.

[SMU2007]

Here is SMU's all-time bowl record:

Season Year Bowl Game Opponent W/L PF PA
1924 1925 Dixie Classic West Virginia Wesleyan L 7 9
1935 1936 Rose Bowl Stanford L 0 7
1947 1948 Cotton Bowl Classic Penn State T 13 13
1948 1949 Cotton Bowl Classic Oregon W 21 13
1963 1963 Sun Bowl Oregon L 14 21
1966 1966 Cotton Bowl Classic Georgia L 9 24
1968 1968 Bluebonnet Bowl Oklahoma W 28 27
1980 1980 Holiday Bowl BYU L 45 46
1982 1983 Cotton Bowl Classic Pittsburgh W 7 3
1983 1983 Sun Bowl Alabama L 7 28
1984 1984 Aloha Bowl Notre Dame W 27 20
2009 2009 Hawaiʻi Bowl Nevada W 45 10
2010 2010 Armed Forces Bowl Army L 14 16
2011 2012 BBVA Compass Bowl Pittsburgh W 28 6
2012 2012 Hawaiʻi Bowl Fresno State W 43 10


If my math is correct, 26.67% of SMU's bowl appearances have been under June Jones! Now, remind me again about what a big, bad football power SMU has been, historically speaking. I just don't see it.

My point is that some people's present-day expectations for SMU football seem delusional to me, given our historical record in football. As further evidence, check out our all-time records against our former SWC foes. Where are all these alleged "glory days"? Occasionally, we had a great team, and now and then, we pulled a big upset (or came close). SMU has never been a traditional, consistent football power.

I see that pugilisticpony is trying to compete with FTHP for the dumbest post of the year award. Good effort.

[NTXCoog]

I think an honest question is, how bad was the SWC in the early and mid 90s. I'd say on par with The American this year. While the SWC was once the SEC, those last 5 years were ugly. That was a dying league and a ton of talent was living the state to play in the big 8, PAC 10, and SEC

Interesting question.
I couldn't find full rankings of all teams of any kind that far back but I do have the 1995 AP and coaches top 25 polls. Both have UT A&M and Tech in the top 25. How many this year in the AAC?

Per college poll archive http://collegepollarchive.com/

1990 UH #10, UT #12, aTm #15
1991 aTm #12
1992 aTm #7
1993 aTm #9
1994 aTm #8, UT #25
1995 UT #14, aTm #15, TT #23

Right now, AAC with 2 ranked, #15 and #18 if I'm being consistent by using the AP.

And back to the original post, SMU has finished ranked at least 3 times without making it to a bowl. UH has finished ranked 5 times without going to a bowl. (Not including years with bowl bans due to NCAA infractions).

[couch 'em]

Here is SMU's all-time bowl record:

Season Year Bowl Game Opponent W/L PF PA
1924 1925 Dixie Classic West Virginia Wesleyan L 7 9
1935 1936 Rose Bowl Stanford L 0 7
1947 1948 Cotton Bowl Classic Penn State T 13 13
1948 1949 Cotton Bowl Classic Oregon W 21 13
1963 1963 Sun Bowl Oregon L 14 21
1966 1966 Cotton Bowl Classic Georgia L 9 24
1968 1968 Bluebonnet Bowl Oklahoma W 28 27
1980 1980 Holiday Bowl BYU L 45 46
1982 1983 Cotton Bowl Classic Pittsburgh W 7 3
1983 1983 Sun Bowl Alabama L 7 28
1984 1984 Aloha Bowl Notre Dame W 27 20
2009 2009 Hawaiʻi Bowl Nevada W 45 10
2010 2010 Armed Forces Bowl Army L 14 16
2011 2012 BBVA Compass Bowl Pittsburgh W 28 6
2012 2012 Hawaiʻi Bowl Fresno State W 43 10


If my math is correct, 26.67% of SMU's bowl appearances have been under June Jones! Now, remind me again about what a big, bad football power SMU has been, historically speaking. I just don't see it.

My point is that some people's present-day expectations for SMU football seem delusional to me, given our historical record in football. As further evidence, check out our all-time records against our former SWC foes. Where are all these alleged "glory days"? Occasionally, we had a great team, and now and then, we pulled a big upset (or came close). SMU has never been a traditional, consistent football power.

And I got curious: under the modern "non losing record guarantees a bowl" system, we have had 47 non losing seasons. So June would be responsible for 8.5% of bowls.

[Pugilistic Pony]

The REAL heartbreaker was the DP after the six-year run by SMU in the eighties. Will anyone argue that four wins over UT in six years was worth THAT?

[mr. pony]

Please read this carefully.

In the 20 years before June Jones got here, we were ranked #113 in terms of win percentage. Out of 117 teams.

Here are the numbers from 2008 through 2012 (Stassen doesn't have 2013 numbers loaded yet):

2008: Tied for 116 out of 118
2009: Tied for 34th out of 118
2010: Tied for 62nd out of 119
2011: Tied for 34th out of 116
2012: Tied for 58th out of 124

That a significant reduction in suckage my friend.

Very interesting, Pythagoras. (Or may I call you Lee?)
Read this very carefully:
In 2013, we had a highly-paid coach who, after 6 years, couldn't stay on the field with Coogar High, Texas A&M, Tech or TCU, and begged out of playing Baylor in Dallas.