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SMU football can be divided into two periods prior to the heady 1980's. About sixty years passed from the beginnings of football at the school until the brink of the 1980's, when the wins started rolling in in an unprecedented manner due to the rampant cheating that would eventually earn the school the first and only death penalty from the NCAA. Dividing that period roughly in half, SMU carried a 62% winning percentage for the first 30 years or so --years that included legendary coaches Ray Morrison and Matty Bell, a 1935 national championship, and the great Doak Walker -- and a 42% winning percentage for the second thirty years.

Then came the five year period of extreme winning under coaches Ron Meyer and Bobby Collins. From 1980 to 1984, SMU won an astonishing 84% of its games and was the #3 winningest major program behind only Nebraska and Georgia.

Once NCAA sanctions started coming down -- but still prior to the Death Penalty -- SMU fell back to its pre -1980's winning level in the three year period from 1985 to 1987 with a 43% win percentage for the period.

The six years post Death Penalty -- but while still in the SWC -- were tough ones. Overmanned, outweighed, and out-talented, these teams were not short on heart. A 27% winning percentage accumulated during that period.

The post-SWC, mid-major days (WAC and CUSA) have not been extremely kind either, as SMU posted a disappointing 35% winning percentage, a full 7 percentage points under the norm. But during this mid major period, SMU has built a beautiful new stadium, instituted new gameday traditions on the Boulevard, and hired a winner in new AD Steve Orsini. And last season, the team knocked on the bowl door, barely missing with a 6-6 record.

good info

Ponyboy is full of Crap Part II:

Blah! Blah! Blah! Only you could turn SMU's abysmal record over the last 18 years into a positive. Here's the correct comparison-SMU is 15-74-2 against former SWC teams for a 16% winning percentage, SMU is 11-42-1 against the LOWER elechelon of the former SWC(Rice, TCU, Baylor, UH) for a 20% winning percentage, 1-20 on the road against former SWC cupcakes Baylor, Rice and TCU for a 4.5% winning percentage and is the only school that hasn't been to a bowl since the breakup of the SWC. I miss mediocrity.

Pull your head out of your ass-a) this is the most pathetic and uncompetitive period in SMU HISTORY in BOTH FOOTBALL and BASKETBALL, b) against much weaker competition. Be very afraid of people who would attempt to justify the performance of this program over the last 18 years. I say it is UNACCEPTABLE. Ponyboy seems to think that record is a-OK. Send in your checks today so we can be a Top 25 Program.

The only teams that matter in your comparison are TCU, Rice and Houston since they're the only ones that followed us to mid-major status. TCU is #24 in win percentage since 1996. Rice is 83 and Houston in 87. We're at about 100. So, yes, they outperformed us. But they didn't cheat repeatedly and stupidly and get slapped with the Death Penalty, did they?

Now explain what in my analysis above is full of crap.

16% 20% and 4.5% is just Jim Dandy huh? Should we even bother to bring out the point that-what a coincidence-this is the longest period of ineptitude in SMU Basketball history?

Nope. It sucks.

Who are you arguing with?

a Cheerleader.

And proud of it. Now what above is full of crap? Or did you not want to let facts get in the way.

Stallion wrote: Be very afraid of people who would attempt to justify the performance of this program over the last 18 years. I say it is UNACCEPTABLE. Ponyboy seems to think that record is a-OK. Send in your checks today so we can be a Top 25 Program.

Nice edit. Let's get something straight. I said it above and I'll say it now. Our performance is unacceptable and has been so since 1950. I've publicly supported your very good ideas on how to fix it. Stop building straw men, putting words into people's mouths, and beating down those who are trying to support their team.

there was nothing unacceptable about SMU's performance in a BCS level conference in the early 50s or mid to late 60s or even the 70s. We didn't win as much as we'd like but we could sure as hell beat and always compete against Rice, Baylor, TCU and could handle Tech on occasion. There has never been an 18 year period when SMU could only go 11-42-1 20% against the have-nots of Baylor, TCU, Rice and Houston(for those uncomfortable in comparing the big state schools) You want to know what our record was against Rice, TCU, Baylor and UH during thes 60-79? Stop comparing the two periods there is no comparison. Here is our record against the schools we were competing against when Ken Pye decided to play Ivy League Football:

1.Texas Tech 0-11
2. Baylor 0-9
3. Texas 0-7
4. A&M 0-7-1
5. Rice 4-14
6. TCU 5-12
7. UH 2-7-1
8. Arkansas 4-7

There is no 18 year period in SMU History remotely comparable to the ineptitude of the last 18 years. Coincidently, there has been no longer drought in SMU Basketball History. I don't know your agenda for suggesting SMU has always sucked but it is intellectually dishonest and factually inaccurate to combine the two eras.

and it all can be laid at the top!

Stallion wrote: I don't know your agenda for suggesting SMU has always sucked but it is intellectually dishonest and factually inaccurate to combine the two eras.

It's nothing of the sort. Do you even read what I type before pronouncing judgement on it? My agenda is the truth. I know they discourage that trite old idea in law school -- since they tried to excise it from me too -- but there it is. The truth is that we weren't as high as some on this board have been leading us to believe and therefore the fall wasn't quite as far. In that "BCS" conference that was the SWC, we won only 42% of our games in the 50s through 70's. 42%. You can have all your proclamations that we currently suck -- I helped you out with some numbers above. But we sucked in the SWC too until some "friends of the program" (are YOU one of those?) decided to repeatedly pay snot nosed kids unbelievable sums of money to play football despite repeated warnings from the NCAA that they'd shut us down if we continued to do so. We continued to do so. They shut us down. We deserve some of what came to us.

well 42% is a helluva a lot better than 16% [deleted]. It is intellectually dishonest to suggest that they are the same.

There's your patented name calling post to get the embarassing truth removed. Like clockwork.

First, I said that it was a big drop from "BCS" to mid major. And that, even with that drop, we'd also dropped from 42% to 35% in winning percentage. My ONLY point is that we sucked in the SWC so the fall isn't as far as advertised. And it's also intereting that our place in the WAC and CUSA standings have remarkably resembled our places in the SWC standings.

1996: 4th (of 16)
1997: Tied 2nd
1998: Tied 9th
1999: 5th
2000: Tied 6th
2001: 6th
2002: Tied 6th
2003: 10th
2004: Tied 6th
2005: Tied 6th
2006: Tied 6th

1969: 5th (of 9)
1970: 4th
1971: 5th
1972: 2nd
1973: 4th
1975: 5th
1976: 8th
1977: 6th
1978: 6th
1979: 6th

There. Hopefully that gets read before you call me another name.

Every team should gravitate toward the top of the bell curve
aka mediocrity in a FAIR athletic association over a long
period of time Say the periods Ponyguy is talking about.
Ponyguy, what's the Cowboy's average winning record over their
history Are they mediocre

Trouble is the NCAA got c*strated by the CFA in a lawsuit in the middle
to late 70s I think, over TV rights. Used to be 2 appearances on TV in 3
or 4 years games chosen by the NCAA. Now everybody does their TV
themselves, and through their conferences.

Of course the winning teams got an immediate immense recruiting
advantage by being on TV every week at LEAST in their town's
TV range. Hmmmmmm, maybe a 30 year late lawsuit by a mid major
coallition to get TV rights back to the NCAA is necessary against the
CFA (Coaches Football Association?) The NCAA could then become
a fairer organiztion, and distribute the monies to all division schools
like they used to.

I would surmise that this is what justified our SMU cheaters in their
minds to do what they did in the early 80s.