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Found an interesting site that compares year ending finishes in the computer Massey rankings:

1989 94 Gregg
1990 104
1991 103 Rossley
1992 79
1993 86
1994 90
1995 100
1996 63
1997 60 Cavan
1998 63
1999 94
2000 100
2001 93
2002 110 Bennett
2003 118
2004 100
2005 83
2006 73

That 1996 Rossley team that went 5-6 (and was 3 plays away from 8-3) looks pretty good now.

Shumann had a Top 25 Defense as I recall.

Bennett's 73 last year the second highest since the DP. Hmmmm.

In other words you have just posted something like:

Coming back but terrible
Bad
Horrible
Awful
Stinko
God awful
Pathetic

Well, you get the idea

mr. pony wrote:Bennett's 73 last year the second highest since the DP. Hmmmm.

Hmm... I thought the two 63s and the 60 were better than Bennett's 73. Sorry bud, last year was #4.

I am kind of surprised. Bennett is the only one that has improved every year since beginning. All the others trended downward with a couple of up ticks thrown in. Yes Rossley had the best and who is to say what could have been if he had continued. But Cavan shows best with Rossley's recruits and then a down turn. Granted, the improvements are proportional to the lifting of recruiting limitations, but the trend is still good although slow.

mrydel wrote:I am kind of surprised. Bennett is the only one that has improved every year since beginning. All the others trended downward with a couple of up ticks thrown in. Yes Rossley had the best and who is to say what could have been if he had continued. But Cavan shows best with Rossley's recruits and then a down turn. Granted, the improvements are proportional to the lifting of recruiting limitations, but the trend is still good although slow.

Not sure Bennett improved every year...

This season has to be key for him & SMU and a lot of it rests in the hands of a RS soph.

HFvictory wrote:

mrydel wrote:I am kind of surprised. Bennett is the only one that has improved every year since beginning. All the others trended downward with a couple of up ticks thrown in. Yes Rossley had the best and who is to say what could have been if he had continued. But Cavan shows best with Rossley's recruits and then a down turn. Granted, the improvements are proportional to the lifting of recruiting limitations, but the trend is still good although slow.

Not sure Bennett improved every year...

This season has to be key for him & SMU and a lot of it rests in the hands of a RS soph.

I did leave out "with the exception of the o-fer year." My main point was that after he got his own people and scheme in he has improved each year. That is not pure sunshine. First the restrictions were lifted on recruiting finally and other coaches coming into losing programs at other schools have done more in a shorter period. But I do not think we could have gotten any of those coaches at that time. If we can continue to show improvement, if Bennett turns out not to be the one for SMU it should be a little easier to attract a hgher claiber coach to give us a shot. I truly see this as a positive report although the trend is far too slow. It does make me want to pull for Bennett even more since starting over again just slows down the process.

Stallion wrote:1995 100
1996 63
1997 60 Cavan
1998 63
1999 94
2000 100
2001 93
2002 110 Bennett
2003 118
2004 100<----Cavans Players
2005 83<------PB's Players
2006 73

Mr.Recruiting Guru:

Please tell me then how you can justify cavans recruits being so great? He was winning with someone else's players early on, but as he introduced "his" guys his rating got lower every year. And in the end stuck PB with a terrible team

expony18 wrote:Mr.Recruiting Guru:

Please tell me then how you can justify cavans recruits being so great? He was winning with someone else's players early on, but as he introduced "his" guys his rating got lower every year. And in the end stuck PB with a terrible team

Take it easy -- I didn't write any of that!

PhirePhilBennett wrote:That 1996 Rossley team that went 5-6 (and was 3 plays away from 8-3) looks pretty good now.

Shumann had a Top 25 Defense as I recall.

Thank you Mister Copeland for dumping Rossley.

Yes but Rossley went 0-6 against RICE, which alone is grounds for dismissal.

ex-pony18 you must not been around when Cavan was coach because I was about 5 times more critical about SMU's recruiting when Cavan was here. As Bennett said the day he took the job he wouldn't have even considered the SMU job if he was forced to work under the restrictions that Gregg, Rossley and Cavan were expected to work under. Cavan had one player-for about 4 games(Shanderrick Charles) recruited after the new recruiting model put into place circa 2000. Bennett doesn't get the same excuses that the other 3 coaches get. He has the facilities including a brand new stadium, he recruits under a new model which allows I would say about 85% of the changes that should be implemented, and he competes at a much lower level of competition. You are comparing apples to oranges if you claim that Bennett should be judged under with the same yardstick. That being said I think this does provide some evidence that the SMU program has really improved very little over the years and that what success we have had has more to do with relaxation of recruiting standards and Ford Stadium. Where would Bennett's teams have finished for example without Bobby Chase, Haywood, Romo in his senior year and the other JUCOs which SMU did not recruit under former coaches. I can name at least 5 games that Haywood and Chase and to a lesser extent Romo would not have won without them-and that's a conservative estimate. I'd also state that this shows the level at which we recruit is generally reflective of the level at which we compete-somewhere areound 85th in the country as a mean average.

another interesting point-start counting from Year 4 which was the first year SMU played with a real senior class and SMU composite pre-Bennett score was 82.8.- a score Bennett beat for the first time last year. Bennett's composite is at 96.8-and please don't try to convince me that poor Phil Bennett had it tougher in his first 3 years than Gregg, Rossley or Cavan because that is laughable. In fact, Bennett's composite rating of 96.8 is worse than Gregg/Rossley's composite of 91.1 over the first 5 years after the DP from 1989-1993 when they were mostly playing with successively freshman, sophmores, juniors, seniors and finally in 1993 with redshirt seniors-although in fairness I think there are more teams in Division 1A today than 10 years ago. Call it a draw. Where's the bump from the relaxation of admission standards and Ford Stadium. No in the big picture of things-not much has changed in level of play on the Hilltop since the DP except for lesser competition.

Stallion wrote: Bennett's composite is at 96.8-and please don't try to convince me that poor Phil Bennett had it tougher in his first 3 years than Gregg, Rossley or Cavan because that is laughable.

None of those coaches ever went winless in a season as head coach.....