FSU,GT Threaten to Leave ACC

[SWC Grey Hair]

Boston Globe says FSU and GT threatened yesterday to leave the ACC if the expansion isn't approved. That stopped the call of a vote in which Virginia would have voted no, with Duke and NC.

[MrMustang1965]

It's getting downright comical.

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"Winning ain't everything...but it's a lot more fun than the alternative!" S.M.U. SPIRIT: IT STARTS NOW!

[EastStang]

Duke and UNC don't want expansion because their football programs stink and they don't want to have to give up tickets to the ACC tournament. They want to see a divisional alignment for the tobacco road schools to be together. Duke, WF, Clemson, UNC, NC State, and UVA (or UMd). Then have Maryland (or UVa), BC, Syracuse, GT, FSU, and Miami in the other division. The devil is always in the details. Clemson would rather be in with the big boys. Maryland would rather be with the tobacco road schools. These are what are being hashed out. I am sure there will be a deal on these issues and the invitations will be extended with UNC or Duke voting yes, but UVa. voting no for political reasons.

[Stallion]

that would be delicious if the ACC was destroyed by their own greed. I tell you what-Duke hasn't thought this thing out in my opinion. Duke is outstanding in BB right now. Nothing lasts foever. Someday Coach K will be gone and Duke might not have leverage they have today. Remember that program sunk pretty low before he got there. If they vote in favor of expansion they have reserved a seat at the Big Table. Wake Forrest should feel the same way especially if Florida St and Georgia Tech leave. All of a sudden you have a 7 team conference with 2 poor drawing private schools and probably would lose their BCS membership over time.

[This message has been edited by Stallion (edited 06-11-2003).]

[Lefty]

ACC won't go down. If the expansion doesn't go through, or if Tech and FSU leave, they'll throw the moon at Notre Dame and some other almost-topshelf priograms and go on, happily counting their millions from their BCS bowls and their hoops superiority.

[Stallion]

WHO? Without Syracuse and Boston College Notre Dame wouldn't fit and I doubt would have the slightest interest. The next TV contract for FB would be catastrophic for that league. I don't think you've thought thru this. The ACC is fighting for its life as a FB conference. All ACC schools would slide down the financial ladder and its state schools in order to compete would be primed for the plucking by the SEC if it wanted to go to 14 or the Big East if the Rutgers, Temples, UConns etc were dropped.

[This message has been edited by Stallion (edited 06-11-2003).]

[EastStang]

If FSU and GT leave, that league would be toast. They'd also be looking at losing Maryland as well. The SEC would expand to 14 in a nanosecond to accept FSU and GT. The ACC knows this and they are not stupid. Duke and UNC also know that now is the time to get the best deal they can from the other schools divisionally. They know UVa. is in a corner because Tech won't be invited and figure they can use this leverage to get their issues regarding ACC tournament seats and division alignments in their favor now. I suspect WF, Md. and UVa. are trying to broker things.

[Lefty]

Who? Not sure. But I'd guess the ACC would throw huge cash/incentives at Notre Dame or might go after Pitt (very strong in basketball and football). Just guessing, of course, as we all are.

Where would Maryland go? If the SEC annexed FSU and GaTech, as EastStang suggests, would they have room for the Terps, too? (Maybe Vanderbilt gets booted, a la Temple from the Big East?) Maryland is too strong in both sports for the ACC to let them walk away quietly.

[OldPony]

Maybe the anti- expansion people are trying to do a better job for their schools than the have-nots of football in the Big 12. Big 12 football teams that are on TV get a higher percentage of the TV $ than those who aren't on. BUT in basketball, all TV revenue is split evenly. How good was that trade for KU? Never on for football but on 2-3 times a week (it seems) for basketball. Could that ber part of the Dukie's etal problem?

[Southland]

Last time the press guaranteed UNC, Duke and UVA would vote no, and the vote was approved 9-0.

Sources close to the Duke program have said, and continue to say, that the big hang up for Duke is the University wants a division with 6 of the 7 charter ACC members and will not accept anything different.

If you read the email Duke's President sent, it does not say, "I'm against expansion," it says she cannot approve the current plan without an agreement on travel, divisional alignment and student welfare (basically all three are associated with the divisional alignment and scheduling).

I'm sure the lawsuit made Duke and UNC revisit their prior concerns, and the schools won't move forward unless they are positive that the ACC follows their strategic direction.

However, a bigger issue popped up last week that has been less talked about because it isn't a sexy headline. Last week an ACC source leaked to the Charlotte Observer that the major league proponents of expansion (FSU, Tech, Clemson) are lobbying to split all natural travel partners into different divisions. The schools claim that it would split travel costs evenly. The southern schools want financial compensation (for travel) if the 6 charter members (UVA, Maryland, Big 4) are grouped and they have to be in a division with Syracuse and BC.

That is the major obstacle to expansion... not a frivolous lawsuit or ACC Tournament tickets. Want to solve the ACC Tournament ticket problem? Move the Tournament to a NBA arena or a dome (Tropicana).

As for UVA... SOS... Notice, it is never the President or athletic director at UVA talking about Virginia Tech, it is the politicians within Virginia and Virginia Tech executives.

I would bet the ACC has a couple of extensive calls this week, and then will approve the expansion 9-0 or 8-1 once the divisional alignment is agreed upon.

[Hoop Fan]

You knew that was coming. Florida State and Ga Tech are not gonna get shoved around by Duke. I think Stallion is right in that Duke basketball is not immune from a dropoff once K retires and they better be careful. As I speculated yesterday, Miami, FSU, Ga Tech and Louisville could easily form a southern conference that would overshadow ACC football like nobodies business. Clemson might be willing to go along too.

[Eddie P]

Eaststang has the right idea on this particular thread. Duke sees an opportunity to better itself and will drop it's suggestion (they never said they were going to vote no) that they would vote no on expansion. Frankly, I think the final vote will be 8-1 in favor of expansion, with Va voting against once they are sure the proposal will pass with them voting against.

[This message has been edited by Eddie P (edited 06-11-2003).]

[Hoop Fan]

Well, Duke could very well be posturing for internal alignment. However, if that were the case, why in the world would the Prez of Duke comment about the possible detriment being done to "colleagues" in the Big East? Duke is giving credence to the Big East's lawsuit! That smells to me like they are really trying to stop the expansion otherwise they are shooting themselves in the foot.

[Roach]

Maybe referring to all ADs (ACC or Big East or other) as "colleagues"? So Copeland, Hyman, etc., would also fall under that title?

[Eddie P]

Perhaps they were serious at some point, although I doubt it. However, FST and GaT put a quick stop to that with their alleged threats of leaving if Miami isn't voted in to the ACC. And that, my friends, was the end of that particular hurdle.