PonyFans.com

“The Run and Shoot popularized by Jack Pardee and June Jones sent Warren Moon to the Hall of fame. Basically, this involves a lot of 4 wide receiver sets with ample presnap motion. The advantage is that it spreads the defense and with 4 wideouts, one will usually get open. The disadvantage is that there is no tight end, so makes scoring in the red zone more difficult. It places huge pressure on the quarterback because there are fewer blockers kept in for protection; Buddy Ryan called this the ‘Chuck and duck’ offense. With so much passing, it’s hard to develop a running game. In addition, like the K-gun, it places pressure on the defense because they tend to be on the field more. Currently, no team in the NFL employs the run and shoot, though most teams have some kind of ‘spread’ set employing 4 or 5 receivers.â€

Interesting it mentions the Oilers and Warren Moon but at the same time says it's hard to develop a running game. The Oilers of Warren Moon's time had two RBs that I think were thousand yard rushers...and if memory serves at least one probowl appearance....memory isn't the best, but I think it was Gary Brown & Lorenzo White.

By the way, JJ calls his offense the Four Wide, not the run-and-shoot, and made a lot of changes to it while at UH. He very commonly just refers to it as "what we do". For example, the QB used to be under center a lot more when he first started at UH, moved to shotgun-only (except for short yardage and within the 5 yard line) due to pass protection benefits.

One thing to keep in mind is that the shovel pass is basically a running play for JJ's offense. It is basically a draw play with some misdirection used.

Some stats about the Hawaii's running game under JJ:
2006: Nate Ilaoa 990 yards rushing (7.6 ypc) and 837 yards receiving (12.5 ypr, almost all on shovel passes). Only fumbles prevented him from getting 1100+ yards, as he was yanked from some games after multiple fumbles.

2005: Nate showed up to camp significantly overweight, but ended up with 643 yards rushing (7.6 ypc), 274 yards receiving (7.6 ypr).

2004: Michael Brewster 772 yards rushing and West Keliikipi 336, so the total was over 1000.

2003: 4 RBs rotated, total for them was almost 1400 yards rushing

2002: 3 RBs rotated, total was over 1100 yards rushing

You get the idea...having more than 1000 yards rushing is not unusual in JJ's offense. 2007 was unusual because 3 OL and the top 2 RBs had gone to the NFL, and none of the RBs had any experience. The only RB they had that was a solid blocker (Farmer) had no speed and poor hands, and the 4-star transfer from Nebraska couldn't figure out how to block.

When Jones took over the Chargers after Kevin Gilbride was fired, we used to refer to the system they had as the "Run and [deleted]"

The O-line was so pourous (they ended Stan Humphries career), that the QB would take the snap, run 5 feet, then scream "Oh [deleted]!" while he was burried by 3 or 4 defenders.

-CoS

Tom Rossley's Run and Shoot had twice maybe three times the trouble scoring in the red zone compared to the "Great Phil Bennett". And really quite frankly Tom Rossley's Run and Shoot relied so desperately upon the athletic ability of Ramon Flanigan that it couldn't really be called the traditional Run and Shoot. You need exceptional athletes because you aren't going to fool anyone on the goal line.

Stallion wrote:Tom Rossley's Run and Shoot had twice maybe three times the trouble scoring in the red zone compared to the "Great Phil Bennett". And really quite frankly Tom Rossley's Run and Shoot relied so desperately upon the athletic ability of Ramon Flanigan that it couldn't really be called the traditional Run and Shoot. You need exceptional athletes because you aren't going to fool anyone on the goal line.

Hawaii in the red zone in 2007:
58 times in the red zone, 51 scores (88%)
58 times in the red zone, 43 TDs (74%)

SMU in the red zone in 2007:
53 times in the red zone, 41 scores (77%)
53 times in the red zone, 31 TDs (58%)

JJ's offense was MUCH better in the red zone last season than SMU's offense under Bennett. This includes a 1st-and-goal on the 1 yard line where JJ had UH take a knee instead of try to score when they were up on Boise State.

Hawaii was #3 in the country for TD percentage in the red zone! Only Florida and West Virginia were better! If they didn't take a knee against Boise State Hawaii they would have been #1 in the country in TD percentage in the red zone!

Check 2006. I think SMU led the nation in Red Zone scoring. Problem with ours was that it was a lot of FGs. One additional TD and we would have gone to a bowl and we would not have Jones today.
Kind of an enigma wrapped in a riddle.

mrydel wrote:Check 2006. I think SMU led the nation in Red Zone scoring. Problem with ours was that it was a lot of FGs. One additional TD and we would have gone to a bowl and we would not have Jones today.
Kind of an enigma wrapped in a riddle.

I don't really care for the overall Red Zone scoring stat...I like TDs in the red zone! Unfortunately, I don't have an easy way to check TD percentage in the red zone in 2006. But since you brought it up...

SMU in the red zone in 2006:
41 times in the red zone, 36 scores (88%)

Hawaii in the red zone in 2006:
84 times in the red zone, 72 scores (86%)

SMU was #16 nationally, #1 in C-USA for red zone scoring. But Hawaii was just 2% less and I'll bet had a MUCH better TD conversion rate. Hawaii had only 13 FGs all season (only 5 were less than 30 yards long) in 2006, which means at least 67 of those scores in the red zone were TDs. A ratio of 67 TDs to 5 FGs in the red zone...I'll take that anytime!

The other thing that stands out to me is that Hawaii was in the red zone more than twice as often as SMU in 2006! Who cares about a 2% better success rate if it occurs that seldomly!

Note that in 2006 Hawaii played at Alabama, at Boise State, at Fresno State, and home against Purdue, Oregon State, and the bowl against Arizona State. That was NOT a cupcake schedule!

Garret wrote:

mrydel wrote:Check 2006. I think SMU led the nation in Red Zone scoring. Problem with ours was that it was a lot of FGs. One additional TD and we would have gone to a bowl and we would not have Jones today.
Kind of an enigma wrapped in a riddle.

I don't really care for the overall Red Zone scoring stat...I like TDs in the red zone! Unfortunately, I don't have an easy way to check TD percentage in the red zone in 2006. But since you brought it up...

SMU in the red zone in 2006:
41 times in the red zone, 36 scores (88%)

Hawaii in the red zone in 2006:
84 times in the red zone, 72 scores (86%)

SMU was #16 nationally, #1 in C-USA for red zone scoring. But Hawaii was just 2% less and I'll bet had a MUCH better TD conversion rate. Hawaii had only 13 FGs all season (only 5 were less than 30 yards long) in 2006, which means at least 67 of those scores in the red zone were TDs. A ratio of 67 TDs to 5 FGs in the red zone...I'll take that anytime!

The other thing that stands out to me is that Hawaii was in the red zone more than twice as often as SMU in 2006! Who cares about a 2% better success rate if it occurs that seldomly!

Note that in 2006 Hawaii played at Alabama, at Boise State, at Fresno State, and home against Purdue, Oregon State, and the bowl against Arizona State. That was NOT a cupcake schedule!

Pleasa know I am enjoying your stats. I just know that for instance in the case of SMU in 2006, if you do not break it all out like you have, it can be deceiving.

mrydel wrote:Pleasa know I am enjoying your stats. I just know that for instance in the case of SMU in 2006, if you do not break it all out like you have, it can be deceiving.

I agree with you about how red zone stats can be deceiving. That is why I looked into it further after you made your last post.

In 2006 SMU had 10 FGs in the 20-29 or 30-39 yard range. If all of those were from the red zone, then SMU would have 26 TDs in 41 trips to the red zone (63%). That was a better TD percentage in the red zone than in 2007!

In 2006 Hawaii had 9 FGs in the 20-29 or 30-39 yard range. If all of those were from the red zone, then Hawaii would have had 63 TDs in 84 trips to the red zone (75%). So, Hawaii had a much better TD conversion percentage while playing a much more difficult schedule than SMU played.

Little trivia: In 2007 Hawaii scored 43 TDs in the red zone and had ONE FG attempt in the 30-39 yard range (they made it).

Guess you guys don't punt much either. June Jones is going to ruin our best weapon!!!!!!-our Punter Thomas Morestead. Morestead I swear is the first punter that I can remember really enjoying watching when he's going strong. He is so talented and might not have scratched the surface yet

Stallion wrote:Guess you guys don't punt much either. June Jones is going to ruin our best weapon!!!!!!-our Punter Thomas Morestead. Morestead I swear is the first punter that I can remember really enjoying watching when he's going strong. He is so talented and might not have scratched the surface yet

Hawaii also has had several *very* good punters under JJ. One of them has been an All-Pro: Cowboys punter Mat McBriar.

Maybe we can actually get ahead in a game by enough points to let Morstead try a 60 yard drop kick.

Garret wrote:

Stallion wrote:Guess you guys don't punt much either. June Jones is going to ruin our best weapon!!!!!!-our Punter Thomas Morestead. Morestead I swear is the first punter that I can remember really enjoying watching when he's going strong. He is so talented and might not have scratched the surface yet

Hawaii also has had several *very* good punters under JJ. One of them has been an All-Pro: Cowboys punter Mat McBriar.

Watch yourself there Garrett....negative discussions about Morestead will not be tolerated on this board.

me@smu wrote:

Garret wrote:

Stallion wrote:Guess you guys don't punt much either. June Jones is going to ruin our best weapon!!!!!!-our Punter Thomas Morestead. Morestead I swear is the first punter that I can remember really enjoying watching when he's going strong. He is so talented and might not have scratched the surface yet

Hawaii also has had several *very* good punters under JJ. One of them has been an All-Pro: Cowboys punter Mat McBriar.

Watch yourself there Garrett....negative discussions about Morestead will not be tolerated on this board.

I've heard very good things about Morestead...I'm glad that JJ will have a good punter at SMU because that has been an aspect of UH's team that has normally been a strength.

I hope that Morestead doesn't mind having less opportunities to punt. However, in the first year at SMU that might not change too significantly.

I thought I'd mention the current Cowboys punter...getting limited opportunities to punt due to JJ's offense doesn't seem to have hurt his NFL career!