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It was interesting to read the people for the Hawaii Bowl and the people against it and all of their reasons on both sides. The thing is, I think that *everybody* missed some key points in the debate. I hate to add another thread on the issue, but figure it was easiest to put all the points here instead of putting various points on different threads.

1. I think it is clear that JJ's main goal for this season was to get SMU to a bowl game, which pretty much all SMU fans would have agreed with before the season began. I do not think that *anybody* expected SMU to have a real shot at the conference title, but the preseason talk was showing progress to boost recruiting and a bowl game was considered a lofty goal.

2. Given SMU's home attendance numbers and the lack of a proven track record to travel 20,000+ fans to a road or bowl game, SMU would not normally be high on a bowl selection committee's wish list. If SMU was 6-6, it would be extremely realistic to think that SMU would be left without a bowl game after the season. While some SMU fans would prefer that Armed Forces Bowl, why would that bowl prefer SMU?

3. JJ broke the season up into sections and got his players to believe that they could go to a bowl game if they could just get to the 6 win mark. If he tried to demand to his players that they needed to win the conference this season, I really don't think he would have gotten the buy-in that he did. *Now* the players believe that they can win and their expectations have been raised I'm sure, but when this season started I think that focusing on a bowl game was the right call.

4. JJ used his ties to Hawaii to get the Hawaii Bowl to agree to take a 6-6 SMU team over any other C-USA team. In fact, without that agreement the Hawaii Bowl might not have signed its agreement with C-USA...there was a LOT of grumbling going on when the Hawaii Bowl switched from its Pac-10 tie to the C-USA...especially since lots of people figured that SMU wasn't going to be good enough to qualify for the bowl and the Hawaii Bowl would go from Notre Dame to some non-SMU C-USA team. The words that JJ has used all season and the words coming from the Hawaii Bowl and in the two main Hawaii newspapers all clearly seem to indicate that some deal was cut to get a 6-6 SMU team in the Hawaii Bowl.

5. SMU in the Hawaii Bowl is the best scenario for the Hawaii Bowl this year. I think that SMU should play in the Liberty Bowl if they win the conference. However, I do not know the terms for the deal with the Hawaii Bowl (and ESPN is a power broker there as the Bowl owner), and I'm guessing when they made the arrangements for this season they never thought that SMU could have a chance at the conference title.

6. The Hawaii Bowl pays $750k, not the crazy $398k number that a reporter pulled out of the air. If C-USA shares bowl revenue like the WAC does, SMU will probably get close to the same amount of money if they go to either bowl (I've never understood why conferences split bowl money so evenly like that). If the money goes into the bowl pool *after* expenses like the WAC and BIg 12 does it, then SMU would actually not be hurt by the extra travel costs to Hawaii...some team is going to travel to Hawaii at C-USA's expense.

7. The biggest argument to me for the Liberty Bowl is that the SMU fans will be able to attend. But is that in the thousands or tens of thousands? If the Liberty Bowl could choose, they might want a team that could fill at least half their stadium. SMU brings that to the Hawaii Bowl more than any other bowl, including the ones in Texas.

8. It is quite possible that the Hawaii Bowl will cease to exist in a few years if the University of Hawaii does not play in it for a couple of seasons and no other team helps draw fans. Hawaii fans are so worried about that (remember, the Aloha Bowl and Oahu Bowl both went away) that many people like my parents bought tickets to the Boise State-ECU game, entered the stadium, then immediately exited the stadium so that they would be counted in the turnstile count. But that was in 2007 and the economy is different now so I doubt many would do that this time (though some season ticket holders like my parents already bought their tickets to the Hawaii Bowl even though Hawaii probably won't be in it). Without an SMU, and say Hawaii doesn't play in the bowl this year and next year, it is quite possible that the Hawaii Bowl will end. That is bad for SMU also, as it eliminates a way for a 6-6 SMU team to go to a bowl.

9. Another good reason for the Liberty Bowl is the additional practice time. I know that each team gets a certain number of practices for the bowl, but the later those practices the better. That gives players time to heal before practices begin, plus time to focus on catching up with school. That also gives time for "voluntary" workouts where the vets help teach the younger players and all players benefit from the training time. However, the practices can get disrupted by Christmas while it is nice that the players can enjoy their Christmas after the Hawaii Bowl.

Lots of rambling here but I wanted to give my take on the Hawaii Bowl deal with SMU and how that is affecting things now.

The most sound information on the situation so far.

Great post, but you when you think about it, this not a bad problem for our Mustangs to have to contend with since any bowl is a good bowl!! But when you think beyond this season there is some real implications on the survival of the Hawaii Bowl.

Cheers,

Jetnfast

Your posts are the best! Lots of good points! Why am I still awake at 6? I need sleeping pills.

Now that SMU has reached 6 wins, none of us -- and I betcha that staff and locker room feels the same way -- should feel satisfied.

When Central Florida knocked off Houston it changed the tone of the season. There's a conference championship to be won. The challenge of winning at Marshall and at home against Tulane obviously takes priority.

By no means should there be a feeling of satisfaction between this program and it's fans. I want that CUSA championship. In due time the Hawaii Bowl will work itself out.

would be nice for the kids to get to go to hawaii. liberty bowl will have double the crowd it looks like from recent years (55k+ vs. probably mid 20's without hawaii at their own bowl)

let's win 3 more games before we argue about 1 vs the other. 3 wins is a long way to go but we are on the right track

Garret wrote:7. The biggest argument to me for the Liberty Bowl is that the SMU fans will be able to attend.

What about the fact that the C-USA Champion gets the automatic bid and is the host team at the Liberty Bowl, does that not make it into the analysis?

If our goal is make it to the Hawaii Bowl, and your information is correct, then we've already met that goal. If we were to somehow win out and do not intend to represent the conference at its bowl game I think we should consider whether to sit out the conference championship game and let a team play who wants it.

jtstang wrote:

Garret wrote:7. The biggest argument to me for the Liberty Bowl is that the SMU fans will be able to attend.

What about the fact that the C-USA Champion gets the automatic bid and is the host team at the Liberty Bowl, does that not make it into the analysis?

If our goal is make it to the Hawaii Bowl, and your information is correct, then we've already met that goal. If we were to somehow win out and do not intend to represent the conference at its bowl game I think we should consider whether to sit out the conference championship game and let a team play who wants it.

JT, while the Liberty Bowl has the first choice among C-USA teams and typically takes the C-USA champion, it is not obligated to take the C-USA champion.

Well I did not read the fine print in the bowl contract but all indications from the Liberty Bowl website are that the Conference USA champion will face an SEC team.

But you are missing my point...if you win the championship, you go where the champion is supposed to go.

Garret wrote: Lots of rambling here.

You're right about that. Go do something.

jtstang wrote:Well I did not read the fine print in the bowl contract but all indications from the Liberty Bowl website are that the Conference USA champion will face an SEC team.

But you are missing my point...if you win the championship, you go where the champion is supposed to go.

If I'm running the show and the Liberty Bowl offers, then I take the Liberty Bowl. So we agree.

That being said, there may be a reason for what JJ said publicly. It may be that the players are thinking "Yeah, I want to go to Hawaii, where there are all of those beaches...and hot chicks on the beaches. I don't want to go to Memphis where it will be freezing," and may play accordingly. Note that JJ didn't promise that we would go to the Hawaii Bowl - just that he would "petition" C-USA (not sure what that would accomplish)...we could very easily win the conference championship, lose the "petition," and go to Memphis.

And I think if the intent is to try to get out of playing in the Liberty Bowl we should consider deferring on the Championship Game and letting somebody play in it that want's to go the the Liberty Bowl. That's no less of a bad idea than "petitioning" the league.

For us, at this time, any bowl is a good bowl. Congratulations to the team for making the 6 win goal with two remaining games.

1) June broke down the season so the kids could play looser and have fun. The team has achieved the 1st goal. Maybe he is trying to keep them loose instead of making them feel we HAVE to win 3 more games in a row. Not our team style yet.

2) Maybe he is trying to assure that if we lose the next 2 games and are 6-6, the Hawaii bowl still takes us, instead of screaming about liberty and turning our back on the Hawaii bowl at the first chance.

3) At the end of the day, just like the rest of College Football, it's about the money. While the extra pub would be nice, go where you get the most money. Garrett says it will be close to even due to the bowl pool split , but this is where June's bosses come into play.

4) Any long time fan should know we are having this conversation way to early. Marshall on the road will be tough, and Tulane.....no game is a cake walk for us. A winless Rice (who took us to the wire) barely beat them. Then we prolly will have to play and beat ECU for the 2nd time this season, odds are probably not in our favor and our D is getting more nicked up each week. No more bowl talk, Marshall first.