our model: Miami

[Hoop Fan]

now you can take your pick, Miami of Ohio or Miami of Florida. Why the heck can Miami of Ohio compete and SMU can't? Actually SMU can if it just lets itself.

I think SMU either needs to crap or get off the pot. You cannot have a mediocre academic reputation (as private schools go) and an enrollment of just 5500 at the same time. Thats the root of the problem here. Either SMU needs to be truly elite academically or it needs to gradually grow enrollment. Frankly, my goal would be 10,000 undergrads by 2030. Buy all of the apartments off of Airline and start to expand across Central at Yale where the bars are if necessary. We all know the Green Elephant is stumbling distance to the dorms. Growing enrollment should do several things to make SMU more vibrant: first tuition could be lowered because of scale. Second, a wider range of programs could be offered, and more support would exist for all programs, academic and athletic. Finally, donations would double in the long run because you have twice the alums. There is nothing to being a small, mediocre university. Might as well be a stronger, slightly larger, mediocre university.

[Dooby]

Not that it matters, but Miami (ohio) is not private.

[Hoop Fan]

Doob, I know, but they enjoy an academic rep at least equal to ours and they have 15,000 undergrads. You don't have to be tiny to be a good school.

[i10pony]

I've always said SMU is a mediocre academic school with some above average programs to excellent departments . You're preaching to the choir hoop fan.

[NavyCrimson]

add another billion or so to the endowment & that'll solve the mediocre part of the equation.

[FloridaMustang]

Miami (OH) has a much better academic rep. Sorry to burst the "bubble."

Ahem. Couldn't help myself.

[Ponymon]

A lot depends upon which of SMU's colleges you are talking about. SMU's business school consistently ranks in the top 40. Many of its professors have published books and are frequently quoted in the WSJ. The fine arts department is well respected and the engineering school is very good although it has been very small in the past. Other parts of the University may not be quite up to the same standard. This could change in the future, however, given the size of the endowment after the recent capital campaign. (The $500 million+ raised over the term of this campaign is NOT an insignificant sum!)

What really hurts the "prestige" of the University, in my opinion, is its southern location and previous problems with the football program. The northeastern press will always place a higher "snob" appeal on universities in their region compared to everyone else. Since they dominate that is the perception that SMU and others (including Rice and Washington University in St. Louis) have to overcome. The SAT scores of the students attending SMU have been going up and this will help raise the perception over time. Turner has the direction of the University going in the right direction and, if successful, we will eventually be given our due. One thing is for sure, SMU visually has more than any other University I have seen, (that includes the buildings!) :thumbupcool:

<small>[ 11-13-2003, 04:58 PM: Message edited by: Ponymon ]</small>

[Water Pony]

Other models can include:

Strong Academics & Sports:

Stanford
USC
Notre Dame
Wake Forest
Duke
Boston College

Turn-around Football Programs:

Kansas State
Hawaii
NIU
NTSU
Northwestern
Maryland
Oregon State

Similar Models (Private/Academically Sound):

TCU
Tulane
Rice
Service Academies (AFA, Navy & Army)
Miami U.

<small>[ 11-13-2003, 05:24 PM: Message edited by: Water Pony ]</small>

[j_bowling]

As Ponymon pretty much said, we have some very respectable academic strengths and we are, in fact, slowly improving our academic stature. (And our not so large alumni didn't do so bad on donations recently.) Being more highly regarded is a noble goal for SMU to pursue, but I don't see how that's the root of SMU's recent troubles or even relevant to developing a great football program today. If Totally Chitty University can get to #6 in the BCS poll, can't we?

[Stallion]

We sure can as soon as people like you stop getting in the way so we can compete on an even playing field with TCU.

<small>[ 11-14-2003, 12:17 AM: Message edited by: Stallion ]</small>

[OldPony]

How is Ad Grad getting in the way?

[EastStang]

There is no reason we can't compete with TCU. We have better facilities, a better acadmeic reputation, stronger academic programs for life after football. The question is what should we be doing to accomodate 20 or so athletes who are probably unable to compete academically at SMU. We can't afford to have 5 new majors programs without expanding faculty significantly into areas where our university business plan says are not generally fruitful majors. Generally speaking, people don't want to pay $100,000 for a degree that will get them a $22,000 a year job as a teacher. That is why major programs like physical education and kinseology are money losers. (Although I would like to point out that personal trainers can make pretty good money and one guy I knew from H.S. actually got a great acting gig from being a personal trainer in L.A.). However, that is the perception that needs to be overcome. SMU is academically stronger than Wake Forest in almost every department. However, eastern prep school folks send students there because it is a good school and don't notice that it is a baptist school. However, they shy away from SMU because it has the word "Methodist" in its name. They think it is some sort of bible thumping school. Duke is a Methodist school. USC is a Methodist school. They just don't advertise it. I am not advocating dropping the denominational name from our school, it is part of who we are, but it is a factor in student admission decisions.

[j_bowling]

stallion, opinions can change, including mine. i'm not trying to get in your way. but i certainly don't understand the logic of the original post. if you can better explain it, please do.

[Diehard Pony]

Just for the record, SMU already owns much of the land (and homes / apartments thereon) east of the campus all the way to I75. All part of the original land grant upon which the university was established.

I too believe a larger enrollment would be beneficial, for the reasons that Hoop Fan pointed out, but not at the risk of impairing the academic progress that has been made over the last decade in particular. Improving the quality of our football and men's basketball would generate more applications (it has in the past) from which it would be possible to achieve both goals.

<small>[ 11-14-2003, 08:34 PM: Message edited by: Diehard Pony ]</small>

[CoxSMU]

I have been very out of the loop from SMU recently( which is why I started reading and posting here) and wondered what was going on with the Bush Library? We were up for it a while back? What is the deal with it now?