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The case for Mizzou NOT going to the SEC

PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:57 pm
by 1983 Cotton Bowl
I know the media has anointed Mizzou as the 14th member of the SEC. I'm not so sure. Here's why.

First, I realize I might be totally wrong. In that case, if Mizzou does go to the SEC, then I will pretend like I never posted this and will claim I knew it all along.

The argument that Mizzou will be the SEC’s 14th school appears to be based on three assumptions: (1) that the SEC must get to 14 schools; (2) that Mizzou is the best option for the SEC to get to 14; and (3) that Mizzou adds the most value with respect to upcoming television rights negotiations (ie. money). Mizzou seems to have bought into each of those assumptions with gusto, which once again demonstrates that Mizzou is run by a bunch of idiots.

Assumption No. 1: I don't think the SEC feels any urgency to add a 14th member. If there's one thing about how the SEC has behaved up to this point, its been their determination not to expand unless and until the right candidate comes along. The SEC does not settle just to fill slots.

When the SEC took A&M, there was no clear cut 14th member out there. But they took A&M nonetheless because the Aggies represented a huge value-add to the conference. If the 14th member was that important in the short term, the SEC would have been more proactive when they took A&M. The SEC will add a 14th member when they are good and ready, and it will only be a school that they feel contributes significantly to the conference. They won't settle for Mizzou or anyone else just to get to 14.

Assumption No. 2: Why is Mizzou simply assumed to be the best option out there? The football program has been a middle-of-the road program in the Big-12. That's it. Before that, the football program was a total disaster. Mizzou brings very little athletic pedigree. The academics are good and Mizzou is AAU, which is admittedly in their favor. But the bottom line of all of this is that football rules the roost. And Mizzou does not bring much to the table there.

But what about Mizzou's ability to "deliver" the Kansas City and St. Louis television markets? That brings us to Assumption No. 3.

Assumption No. 3: The St. Louis television market is the 21st largest market in the country. Kansas City is the 31st largest. Combined, these two markets deliver approximately 2,100,000 television households. Not bad. But compare that to DFW.

DFW is the 5th largest market, recently surpassing the San Fransisco/Oakland/San Jose market. The DFW market delivers approximately 2,600,000 television households. In other words, the DFW market alone is significantly larger than St. Louis and Kansas City combined. Plus, the DFW market is one of the fastest growing in the country. Kansas City and St. Louis are flat. They're not growing.

In addition, does Mizzou "deliver" the Kansas City and St. Louis markets? I don't know. But here is an interesting quote I found: "By no means does Mizzou "own" the Kansas City and St. Louis markets -- they split Kansas City with Kansas, Kansas State and others, while St. Louis has always been a solid Big Ten foothold outside of its Mizzou influence." Food for thought.

Finally, taking Mizzou will once again put the SEC in the position of “raiding” the Big-12. I really don’t think the SEC wants that label. The loss of Mizzou likely would impact the Big-12’s television deals. That won’t sit well with the other members. As demonstrated by the A&M switch, the SEC is not interested in getting involved in big money litigation with the Big-12 schools. Yet that is conceivably what could happen if they poach Mizzou.

So there’s my argument. I think Mizzou to the SEC is a bunch of hot air. I don’t see it happening. Obviously, the Mizzou President, AD, and Board think it might happen. Which is why they have violated the cardinal rule of conference brinksmanship. . .don’t bluff. They tried it last year with the Big-10 and it almost blew up in their faces. Oklahoma tried it this year with the same result. Texas holds all the cards in the Big-12 and they know it. So for Mizzou to act like its holding some cards of its own is foolish. Unless Mizzou has a solid commitment from the SEC that there’s a place for them (and I don’t think they do) they’ll end up looking stupid once again when UT calls their bluff.

Re: The case for Mizzou NOT going to the SEC

PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 4:25 pm
by CalallenStang
I won't say that they "own" the Kansas City market...there are more KU fans in KC than MU fans. But Mizzou certainly owns the St. Louis market and no one even comes close. Illinois and the Big Ten definitely have fans but try listening to St. Louis sports radio and finding out how much they are actually talked about. It's Cardinals, Cardinals, Cardinals, Rams, Cardinals, Mizzou, Cardinals, Cardinals, Blues, Cardinals, Cardinals, Rams, Cardinals, Cardinals, Illinois/Big Ten.

Re: The case for Mizzou NOT going to the SEC

PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 4:32 pm
by East Coast Mustang
Find me a better option for the SEC if VT, Texas, OU won't come.

Re: The case for Mizzou NOT going to the SEC

PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 4:35 pm
by CalallenStang
The reason why the SEC will not stay at 13 over the long run is that 13 is not a good number for a conference over the long run. Unbalanced schedules, etc.

Re: The case for Mizzou NOT going to the SEC

PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 4:39 pm
by East Coast Mustang
CalallenStang wrote:The reason why the SEC will not stay at 13 over the long run is that 13 is not a good number for a conference over the long run. Unbalanced schedules, etc.

This.

Re: The case for Mizzou NOT going to the SEC

PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 4:40 pm
by Pony ^
The case is that they would get THROTTLED. EVERY YEAR.

Re: The case for Mizzou NOT going to the SEC

PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 4:52 pm
by 1983 Cotton Bowl
Interesting piece. Again, this looks like settling. Mizzou settles for the SEC because the Big-10 won't have them, and the SEC settles for Mizzou because there are no better options at the moment. Unless I'm reading the SEC all wrong, they don't do settling. I'm still saying this doesn't go down. Mizzou stays in the Big-12.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/f ... t=cf_t2_a3

Re: The case for Mizzou NOT going to the SEC

PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:24 pm
by leopold
If it takes Mizzou more than 30 seconds to decide whether or not to be there then they have no buisiness going.

Re: The case for Mizzou NOT going to the SEC

PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:30 pm
by Pony_Law
East Coast Mustang wrote:Find me a better option for the SEC if VT, Texas, OU won't come.


SMU? is better in terms oftv, location and academics, WVU is better interms of athletic prowess, they could probably poach Clemson, GT also satisfies the academics big market and sports pedigree

Re: The case for Mizzou NOT going to the SEC

PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:35 pm
by East Coast Mustang
Pony_Law wrote:
East Coast Mustang wrote:Find me a better option for the SEC if VT, Texas, OU won't come.


SMU? is better in terms oftv, location and academics, WVU is better interms of athletic prowess, they could probably poach Clemson, GT also satisfies the academics big market and sports pedigree

SMU nowhere close in terms of TV. Mizzou brings STL and KC. A&M brings more of DFW market than SMU, plus Houston. Not sure if SMU is much better in terms of academics, I believe Mizzou is an AAU member. Besides, Mizzou would travel about 10x better (maybe more) to away games than the SMU fanbase.

WVU is not getting into the SEC. They bring very little TV market/population base, and they would be the worst academic school in the SEC, which is saying something.

GT and Clemson don't have a chance because UGA and SC will block them

Re: The case for Mizzou NOT going to the SEC

PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:39 pm
by johnangle
FWIW, we're ranked #62 (down from 56 last year) and Mizzou is #90. We'll be in the top 50 when the rankings come out next year and Mizzou is fairly stagnant. Their claim to fame is strong journalism.

Re: The case for Mizzou NOT going to the SEC

PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:40 pm
by East Coast Mustang
johnangle wrote:FWIW, we're ranked #62 (down from 56 last year) and Mizzou is #90. We'll be in the top 50 when the rankings come out next year and Mizzou is fairly stagnant. Their claim to fame is strong journalism.

For some reason, AAU membership is a big deal. I don't know why and can't explain it, but everyone gets hot and bothered over an expansion candidate academically speaking if they're an AAU member.

Regardless, SMU's academic profile would be a boost to any major conference.

Re: The case for Mizzou NOT going to the SEC

PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:44 pm
by johnangle
East Coast Mustang wrote:
johnangle wrote:FWIW, we're ranked #62 (down from 56 last year) and Mizzou is #90. We'll be in the top 50 when the rankings come out next year and Mizzou is fairly stagnant. Their claim to fame is strong journalism.

For some reason, AAU membership is a big deal. I don't know why and can't explain it, but everyone gets hot and bothered over an expansion candidate academically speaking if they're an AAU member.

Regardless, SMU's academic profile would be a boost to any major conference.
It basically means that you do a lot of research. There are AAU schools ranked below and above us. I talked to Provost Ludden about it the other day (after reading about how the Big 10 is all into AAU), and he said it really doesn't mean much to us. It's not something we're even aiming for, and we'd never really get there without a med school.We do a lot of research for our size and our academic profile is stronger than Missouri's, despite their AAU status.

Re: The case for Mizzou NOT going to the SEC

PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:49 pm
by East Coast Mustang
johnangle wrote:It basically means that you do a lot of research. There are AAU schools ranked below and above us. I talked to Provost Ludden about it the other day (after reading about how the Big 10 is all into AAU), and he said it really doesn't mean much to us. It's not something we're even aiming for, and we'd never really get there without a med school.We do a lot of research for our size and our academic profile is stronger than Missouri's, despite their AAU status.

Thanks for the run down. I didn't mean to imply Mizzou was better than SMU academically, I was just saying that from the perspective of a major conference, there's not a whole lot of difference between Mizzou and SMU in terms of academics. They're not Ole Miss or anything, but they're not UVa either

Re: The case for Mizzou NOT going to the SEC

PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:19 am
by Pony^
johnangle wrote:
East Coast Mustang wrote:
johnangle wrote:FWIW, we're ranked #62 (down from 56 last year) and Mizzou is #90. We'll be in the top 50 when the rankings come out next year and Mizzou is fairly stagnant. Their claim to fame is strong journalism.

For some reason, AAU membership is a big deal. I don't know why and can't explain it, but everyone gets hot and bothered over an expansion candidate academically speaking if they're an AAU member.

Regardless, SMU's academic profile would be a boost to any major conference.
It basically means that you do a lot of research. There are AAU schools ranked below and above us. I talked to Provost Ludden about it the other day (after reading about how the Big 10 is all into AAU), and he said it really doesn't mean much to us. It's not something we're even aiming for, and we'd never really get there without a med school.We do a lot of research for our size and our academic profile is stronger than Missouri's, despite their AAU status.



If the remarks attributed to Provost Ludden are accurate, they are certainly discouraging. This attitude reflects the same shortsightedness that SMU exhibited when it refused the Graduate Research Center of the Southwest in the early 1960’s. Of course, that center moved off of SMU’s campus and later became the University of Texas at Dallas. SMU refused to meet the needs of area businesses then and appears to lack the desire to bring major research dollars to North Texas today.

Selected Statistics for the Ten Most Economically Productive Metropolitan Statistical Areas

1 New York City
Number of AAU schools: 4 (Columbia, NYU, Rutgers, Stony Brook)
Research expenditures $1.42 billion
2 Los Angeles
Number of AAU schools 4 (Caltech, UCLA, UC Irvine, USC)
Research expenditures $1.09 billion
3 Chicago
Number of AAU schools 2 (Northwestern, U. Chicago)
Research expenditures $0.94 billion
4 Washington DC
Number of AAU schools: 2 (Johns Hopkins, U. Maryland)
Research expenditures $0.64 billion
5 Dallas-Fort Worth
Number of AAU schools: 0
Research expenditures $0.35 billion
6 Philadelphia
Number of AAU schools: 1 (U. Pennsylvania)
Research expenditures $0.87 billion
7 Houston
Number of AAU schools: 1 (Rice)
Research Expenditures $1.00 billion
8 San Francisco
Number of AAU Schools: 2 (Stanford, UC Berkeley)
Research expenditures $0.55 billion
9 Boston
Number of AAU schools: 3 (Brandeis, Harvard, MIT)
Research expenditures $2.02 billion
10 Atlanta
Number of AAU schools: 1 (Emory)
Research expenditures $1.01 billion

“Texas has two cities that are among the ten most economically productive metropolitan areas in the U.S. In terms of research expenditures, Houston fairs reasonably well with $1.0B in research expenditures (rank: No. 6 among U.S. cities) but Dallas-Fort Worth does not fare well with only $0.35 B in research expenditures (rank: No. 22 among U.S. cities). Houston is probably strong because of health-related research performed within the Texas Medical Center. Dallas-Fort Worth is particularly disadvantaged in terms of research expenditures. The average annual research expenditures for the 8 non-Texas cities listed in Table 8 is $1.07 B. Dallas-Fort Worth, with $0.35 B in research expenditures, falls $0.7 B per year in research expenditures (most of which is federally funded) below the average of the 10 most economically productive cities. Lack of more (any) Tier One academic universities is costing the DFW Metroplex hundreds of millions of dollars per year, or more, in lost opportunity to attract research funds.”
Source: http://www.senate.state.tx.us/75r/senat ... Report.pdf


AAU membership has little to do with the academic preparedness of an institution’s students; however, it’s not just about research activity either. Also important is faculty membership in the national academies (science, engineering and medicine) and faculty awards.
Unfortunately, SMU is not well represented in the national academies, but Dr. Ludden comes from UC Berkeley, an institution with more members in these academies than every higher education institution in the State of Texas combined. Perhaps he should recruit a few of his former colleagues to SMU now that we have some new endowed chairs.
While a medical school certainly helps in becoming a member of the AAU, it’s a misnomer to suggest a school can't make it without a medical school. Of the three AAU members in Texas, only one has a medical school (Texas A&M). UT and Rice do not. Medical schools within the UT system do not count for UT.
Further, where are the medical schools at Brandeis or Georgia Tech (both AAU members)? These schools made it because the membership criteria for the AAU are weighted based on the number of tenure-track faculty at a particular institution.
While AAU status is certainly not around the corner and may not be necessary in the long run, SMU uses the same excuse (no medical school) in the context of tier one research status under the Carnegie Classifications; however, schools like Notre Dame and Rice seem to achieve Tier One status without a medical school. Actually, the University of Houston just became the fourth “Carnegie Tier One” intuition in Texas. Let that sink in. I’m sure everyone is familiar with the University of Houston Medical School. . . .
SMU has a great opportunity to make major strides in research activity especially since the State does not currently have the dollars to invest in the public institutions in North Texas. SMU needs to make major investments in its Science and Engineering programs in order to bring more research dollars to the Dallas/Fort Worth Area. If SMU won’t do it, another school will.