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Disclaimer: I am not starting this topic to provide excuses for recent subpar recruiting but rather to debate and discuss what is and is not attractive about SMU to high level football recruits. Larry Brown and the basketball staff have done a nice job overcoming some of these obstacles, but basketball and football are not comparable in terms of the size, breadth, and depth of each recruiting class.

Also, I don't subscribe to Rivals/Scout, so forgive me if I am not as "in the know" as some of you.

Much has been made on this board about DIR recruiting, the lack of BCS level offers among our recruits, and the apathy whether real or perceived, of June's staff on the recruiting trail.

While I agree that June and staff could be putting more effort into pursuing better recruits, especially locally, we need to first ask ourselves this question:

Coaching staff aside, how attractive is SMU to high level recruits in Texas and elsewhere?

I would argue that SMU is an enormously tough sell right now. Most of us who post on Pony Fans see our school through red and blue colored glasses and believe it to be easy to attract top recruits if only we had a "young, aggressive coaching staff" that could sell SMU to recruits with low level BCS offers. However, if I am a recruit with offers from some middle to lower tier Big 12 or ACC schools and I have a choice between the following:

BCS Conference school that routinely packs its stadium with 50K+ against relevant opponents, appears regularly on ESPN, offers an academic curriculum that is athlete friendly and offers all the support necessary for athletes

vs.

SMU: 10-15K fans at every game, most of whom are less interested in the game than in the social events that come with it, far flung conference with opponents that generate little interest, perception as a school whose social environment and academic offerings are unfriendly to athletes, campus culture that does not support athletics, etc.

My point is that it is substantially difficult to recruit high level football talent to SMU and it will take a coaching staff with extraordinary recruiting ability to overcome these obstacles. Clearly we don't have that right now, and I don't necessarily buy the argument that Klemm was that guy either - he was signing guys who were high risk high reward, and we saw how committed those recruits were when the ASU situation went down and he left for UCLA.

I plan on sticking this thing out whether June is our coach or not. As long as SMU is playing football, there is hope that it will get better. In the meantime, however, I will be at Moody supporting hoops.

You're right about us having the wrong staff, get the right staff in here and all the excuses you listed won't matter (see SMU Basketball).

Step one, develop relationships with local high school coaches. This is very imprtant in trying to get mid level recruits, recruits with offers from schools like Kansas state, Iowa State, etc. A high school coach can steer these recruits to specific schools, escpecially if the player doesn't really have any idea where to go.

GoMustAAngs2007 wrote:Disclaimer: I am not starting this topic to provide excuses for recent subpar recruiting but rather to debate and discuss what is and is not attractive about SMU to high level football recruits. Larry Brown and the basketball staff have done a nice job overcoming some of these obstacles, but basketball and football are not comparable in terms of the size, breadth, and depth of each recruiting class.

Also, I don't subscribe to Rivals/Scout, so forgive me if I am not as "in the know" as some of you.

Much has been made on this board about DIR recruiting, the lack of BCS level offers among our recruits, and the apathy whether real or perceived, of June's staff on the recruiting trail.

While I agree that June and staff could be putting more effort into pursuing better recruits, especially locally, we need to first ask ourselves this question:

Coaching staff aside, how attractive is SMU to high level recruits in Texas and elsewhere?

I would argue that SMU is an enormously tough sell right now. Most of us who post on Pony Fans see our school through red and blue colored glasses and believe it to be easy to attract top recruits if only we had a "young, aggressive coaching staff" that could sell SMU to recruits with low level BCS offers. However, if I am a recruit with offers from some middle to lower tier Big 12 or ACC schools and I have a choice between the following:

BCS Conference school that routinely packs its stadium with 50K+ against relevant opponents, appears regularly on ESPN, offers an academic curriculum that is athlete friendly and offers all the support necessary for athletes

vs.

SMU: 10-15K fans at every game, most of whom are less interested in the game than in the social events that come with it, far flung conference with opponents that generate little interest, perception as a school whose social environment and academic offerings are unfriendly to athletes, campus culture that does not support athletics, etc.

My point is that it is substantially difficult to recruit high level football talent to SMU and it will take a coaching staff with extraordinary recruiting ability to overcome these obstacles. Clearly we don't have that right now, and I don't necessarily buy the argument that Klemm was that guy either - he was signing guys who were high risk high reward, and we saw how committed those recruits were when the ASU situation went down and he left for UCLA.

I plan on sticking this thing out whether June is our coach or not. As long as SMU is playing football, there is hope that it will get better. In the meantime, however, I will be at Moody supporting hoops.

If we were complaining about not landing classes on par with Tech or TCU it would be one thing. To not land classes on par with other horrible programs is another. Unless you think programs like Rice have much more to iffer than us I suggest you go read scout and rivals and get "in the know".

Lets try step one. Offering someone with no other offers is not recruiting, it's lazy.

The problem is not the academic regulations. Look at Keith Frazier, he was initially denied but Larry Brown was able to push him through. The admittance of Frazier helped us get Mudiay...I don't think it is so much the facilities as it is the staff and the willingness of the Turner and Hart to acknowledge we need change and fully commit to the football program.

Is recruiting at SMU easy? No

Can it be done against low level P5 teams (Utah, Iowa State, Rutgers, etc)? Sure

is it hard work? Yes

Are we competitive amongst our peers (Boise State, South Florida, Rice, UTSA, Houston, etc)? No

Does June and his staff even try? No

bkoutpny- correct, your answers get you a grade of 97. thank you for playing.

If we would simply focus on DFW second tier recruits we could still field a team that would compete at the top of the American every year. Instead we offer kids that don't get offers from anywhere in the country.

Hire a staff of coaches that have deep ties to DFW high schools and focus on getting the second tier talent to stay at SMU.

sbsmith wrote:You're right about us having the wrong staff, get the right staff in here and all the excuses you listed won't matter (see SMU Basketball).

I'm sorry but that is delusional. Assuming SMU basketball becomes as competitive as he hope and believe it will be done on the back of having an HOF coach with recent NBA experience, a coaching tree dominating the national scene and being in the BBall equivalent of a BCS conference.

In football none of those things exist. Put in a young stud recruiter they still don't exist. And we don't have the promise of sold out arena in football either.

I don't think JJ is the be-all-end-all, and his attitude to recruiting bothers me greatly, but he has many strengths as a coach that we would be foolish to discount.

Mustangsabu wrote:
I'm sorry but that is delusional. Assuming SMU basketball becomes as competitive as he hope and believe it will be done on the back of having an HOF coach with recent NBA experience, a coaching tree dominating the national scene and being in the BBall equivalent of a BCS conference.

In football none of those things exist. Put in a young stud recruiter they still don't exist. And we don't have the promise of sold out arena in football either.

I don't think JJ is the be-all-end-all, and his attitude to recruiting bothers me greatly, but he has many strengths as a coach that we would be foolish to discount.

A crusty 80's offense that had to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 90's by hiring Mumme? A passion for alienating the fans? What are we foolish to discount?

You could put together a very good recruiting class with just second tier DFW kids. Yes you're gonna have to wrestle with Kansas State, Iowa State, Tulsa, Houston, and other lower tier BCS programs, but the kids are right in your backyard. This staff simply lacks the stomach for the fight and the kind of recruiters that can close the deal.

we've got 2 different universes on this board-the group that follows hundreds of reports annually on our recruiting including direct quotes from high school coaches and recruits through the recruiting services and others that don't know jack. I don't know too many with a good handle on our recruiting efforts that think the recruiting effort has been acceptable. Its almost a waste of time trying to educate these guys.

sbsmith wrote:You're right about us having the wrong staff, get the right staff in here and all the excuses you listed won't matter (see SMU Basketball).

As I said in the original post, I don't agree that you can apply the same standards to both basketball and football. In basketball we have a Hall of Fame and NBA champion coach with 10-15 guys on the roster.

ftworthmustang wrote:Step one, develop relationships with local high school coaches. This is very imprtant in trying to get mid level recruits, recruits with offers from schools like Kansas state, Iowa State, etc. A high school coach can steer these recruits to specific schools, escpecially if the player doesn't really have any idea where to go.

I agree, although I don't get the impression that a majority of local high school coaches, especially those in DISD, have a positive impression of SMU, and that isn't entirely the fault of June and staff. They haven't done much to mend that relationship however.

couch 'em wrote:If we were complaining about not landing classes on par with Tech or TCU it would be one thing. To not land classes on par with other horrible programs is another. Unless you think programs like Rice have much more to iffer than us I suggest you go read scout and rivals and get "in the know".

Thanks for the suggestion. I would argue that most of college football views us on the same level as the likes of Rice, Tulane, and Tulsa. Academically focused private schools in the south with small enrollments and small fan bases. Do I like that? Of course not, but I've also come to terms with the fact that the pecking order isn't going to change anytime soon, at least between the P5/non-P5.

Mustang11 wrote:The problem is not the academic regulations. Look at Keith Frazier, he was initially denied but Larry Brown was able to push him through. The admittance of Frazier helped us get Mudiay...I don't think it is so much the facilities as it is the staff and the willingness of the Turner and Hart to acknowledge we need change and fully commit to the football program.

Good example as long as Frazier stays eligible. I'm certainly rooting for him.

StallionsModelT wrote:If we would simply focus on DFW second tier recruits we could still field a team that would compete at the top of the American every year. Instead we offer kids that don't get offers from anywhere in the country.

Hire a staff of coaches that have deep ties to DFW high schools and focus on getting the second tier talent to stay at SMU.

Agree 100%

Great that you have so many opinions about a topic you admit you don't know a thing about. Opinions without any foundation are best disregarded