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I'm asking for something deeper than “defenses figured it out"
How have they figured it out? I've got a decent understanding of x's and o's but not enough to grasp the schematics without it being explained to me. I understand the concept: run where they aren't based on coverage.. On the surface It seems like that would always work.

Obviously the r&s revolutionized the passing game and it's basic principles still exists so it's alive in that sense, but schematically speaking, why is it extinct? Or was it just jones unwillingness to change with the times? Maybe if he dumbed the reads down like he did in 09 with padron, utilized a te, a scat back/fb combo, recruited better players, and understood the value of a dual threat qb, thisoffense could still exists in it's principles even if it didn't look the same formation wise

If anyone with greater football knowledge than myself has an answer, I'd be genuinely interested in hearing it

vielsiehorsepower wrote:I'm asking for something deeper than “defenses figured it out"
How have they figured it out? I've got a decent understanding of x's and o's but not enough to grasp the schematics without it being explained to me. I understand the concept: run where they aren't based on coverage.. On the surface It seems like that would always work.

Obviously the r&s revolutionized the passing game and it's basic principles still exists so it's alive in that sense, but schematically speaking, why is it extinct? Or was it just jones unwillingness to change with the times? Maybe if he dumbed the reads down like he did in 09 with padron, utilized a te, a scat back/fb combo, recruited better players, and understood the value of a dual threat qb, thisoffense could still exists in it's principles even if it didn't look the same formation wise

If anyone with greater football knowledge than myself has an answer, I'd be genuinely interested in hearing it

When it came out, the RnS was unique and very difficult to practice for and/or scheme for. Plus, it often forced defending teams to replace valuable LB's with DBs.

Today, everyone plays multiple WR sets. Thus, every defense is used to defending similar offenses. It is nothing that they haven't seen and can't replicate in practice.
Compared to versions of the spread:
1) you give up the benefit of a dual threat QB
2) the lack of TEs makes running in the Redzone nearly impossible
3) the system lacks any ability to run "downhill" at the defense
4) the spread/pistol is easier to teach young players. Thus, you can get physically gifted young QBs and WRs on the field quicker.
5) various versions of the spread are really variations of the wishbone. Thus, it can easily be used as a run first offense if you have the right players.

IMO after being a part of the run and shoot for two years, it seemed to me that the flaw was that it was so heavily dependent on great QB play, too one dimensional, and June's unwillingness to tweak and change anything about it.

It's a pass first and then set up the run type of offense. It is too one dimensional and June didn't do any variations to it at all. Mumme came in and made some changes and I thought it was very helpful.

Also, June liked to only use 4 receivers and keep them in there the whole game. In the beginning of the season, when it is extremely hot it is almost impossible to assume the receivers will not get tired. Tx Tech and Washington State rotate like 8 receivers in and out so they are always fresh. Same thing that Sumlin did at Houston and A&M.

I don't think the run and shoot is dead for other teams, however just like anything in life, you have to be able to adapt or die and well, I think it's dead for us.

1) Zone blitzing
2) Linebackers that can cover sideline to sideline
3) Terrible in the red zone

Nobody else is running the RnS

The SMU football program is now not only a "Coach Killer" but also an "Offense Killer" as well. I'd say that's a great achievement if SMU is known as the team that killed the Run and Shoot. I wasted 12 years of my life watching that crap. After watching Ramon Flannigan, I have always wondered how the Run and Shoot would look with highly athletic passing QB surrounded by quality players

Stallion wrote: I wasted 12 years of my life watching that crap.

The most succinct, economic, and accurate summation of the R & S.

That's not entirely fair. That offense was instrumental in getting us three bowl wins in the last five years.

ponyboy wrote:That's not entirely fair. That offense was instrumental in getting us three bowl wins in the last five years.

Didn't June credit a lot of that to defense play? I think he was quote as saying something like that on more than one occasion. I believe Couchem did an analysis that showed that Rusty Burns offenses scored more points than June's.

We never had a consistently productive offense in any of the years June Jones was running the show. We won with a couple of great backs in Shawnbrey McNeal and Zach Line and an opportunistic defense. The passing game, ironically, was by far our least consistent threat.

Our 4 bowl seasons came because our 3-4 defense covered up the deficiencies of our offense. 2013's 5 wins came because of Gilbert going all out and it was apparent we were done when he got injured.

Stallion wrote:Nobody else is running the RnS

The SMU football program is now not only a "Coach Killer" but also an "Offense Killer" as well.

Don't forget "Hooker Killer"

sbsmith wrote:

Stallion wrote:Nobody else is running the RnS

The SMU football program is now not only a "Coach Killer" but also an "Offense Killer" as well.

Don't forget "Hooker Killer"

Wow you sure are an idiot.