When does the hammer come down on Baylor and TCU?

[ponyboy]

Unbelievable that the big boys have allowed this to go on for so long.

[LA_Mustang]

They don't self report things. We do. Unless a school self reports or someone involved talks, 99% of violations never come to light.

[One Trick Pony]

I recommend that everyone that's ever had an impropriety in their relationship go home tonight when your wife walks in the door self-report yourself

[ponyboy]

The Death Penalty did not come down because of self reporting.

[Rebel10]

The Death Penalty did not come down because of self reporting.

I believe they probably know that and were not referring to the DP.

[ponyboy]

Let me clarify. SMU football got hammered as a small private for daring beat the big boys at their own game. Baylor and TCU are doing the same thing and I'm wondering how long the UT's and OU's and others allow it to continue.

[Pony_Law]

Dynamics are different. Back in the 80's the cheating was blatant and you could find it out with c level journalism(like the kind Dale Hansen engages in). Now because the cheating is more subtle and people are wise that you only get caught if someone talks. The schools make sure they don't have any evidence of inappropriate behavior so they don't get hit with failure to cooperate/violate the rules on mandatory self reporting. And then nobody talks. Look at Cam newton. Some one admits that they offered to pay Cam to go to Miss. St., NCAA investigates but no one talks that they gave Cam money to go to Auburn, Auburn has no evidence of anything bad so they can cooperate and nothing happens.

[dbone]

The Death Penalty did not come down because of self reporting.

Yes it did.

All the breathless reporting from WFAA on David Stanley was not included in NCAA report because Stanley wouldn't talk to the NCAA. Despite the media reports...it was treated as a rumor by NCAA.

We blinked...fired everybody...investigated our self...and asked for mercy. That's why NCAA only gave us a one year DP...of course they made it impossible for us to have a season in 1988...so we voluntarily self imposed second year of the penalty.

[mrydel]

I just find it kind of ironic that the major violations that led to the DP are now being instituted and praised as stipends for the athletes. I think we deserve some kind of an award or statue for the trailblazing we did. Perhaps a bronze of Coach Parker holding an envelop and studying the return initials.

[Pony Boss]

Silly pf post of the day material, this entire thread is.

[Stallion]

The Death Penalty did not come down because of self reporting.

Yes it did.

All the breathless reporting from WFAA on David Stanley was not included in NCAA report because Stanley wouldn't talk to the NCAA. Despite the media reports...it was treated as a rumor by NCAA.

We blinked...fired everybody...investigated our self...and asked for mercy. That's why NCAA only gave us a one year DP...of course they made it impossible for us to have a season in 1988...so we voluntarily self imposed second year of the penalty.

Here you go again with your ridiculous characterization of the facts. Cooperation after you are caught with your pants down is not self-reporting. Geez. The gig was UP the minute the Ch. 8 report was aired. Anybody with ANY common sense that isn't a hopeless cheerleader knew SMU was going down HARD. Bob Hitch admitted as much in the interview when he told Dale that this was going to hurt a bunch of innocent people.

The NCAA isn't a court of law-they don't even have subpoena power. They don't have to have in court testimony from a witness. But each university has a contractually duty under NCAA rules to cooperate and assist NCAA investigations. The NCAA can draw conclusions, just as they did in 2015, from the failure of the university, its employees, its President or its Board of Governors failure to fully cooperate with the NCAA-and in fact many of the top representatives did refuse to cooperate-especially many around the election of Governor Clements.

The very integrity, reputation and future of Southern Methodist University was at stake. Not the damn football program-the university itself. The university faced the very real possibility of losing its accreditation not to mention is affiliation and support from the Methodist Church. The university faced the very real possibility of the wide-spread resignation of its top faculty. Maybe you think the 150 people on ponyfans represents the sentiments of the university at large. It doesn't. The SMU community itself was largely disgusted with yet another episode of blatant cheating and unethical conduct. SMU's Board had absolutely no choice but to take back control of the university from Clements and the gang of dumbasses who ran the university into the ground unlike any comparable situation in the history of college football. SMU was faced with what amounts to a No Confidence vote from its students, alumni, faculty and the Methodist Church. SMU had no choice but to root out the Cancer.

[SMUer]

Our legal dept sucks

[dbone]

Stallion...I did not make a moral statement...I made a factual statement. Read the 1987 NCAA report...we self investigated...and the NCAA sanctioned us solely on our own report. They did reference a media report that caused them to ask us what was going on. Fact.

Now if you want to get in to why we were scared (WFAA report) or who is to blame (I blame Dr. Shields for not stopping it in 1985) or what was at risk...ok fine. That wasn't the point.

I thought you were a lawyer...I made a factual statement. You are off in opinionland and drawing personal conclusions...with which I might even agree.

But as for facts? If David Stanley refused to talk to NCAA...and he did...the NCAA had nothing they could use against us. Media reports are not sufficient for sanctions. Fact.

[Stallion]

32.8.7 of the NCAA provides the hearing standards. There is no formal federal or state rules of evidence that have to be met for the admission of evidence or INFORMATION which is the actual term the NCAA uses. The NCAA has no subpoena power. The Supreme Court has clearly held that NCAA due process does not have to meet the standards of Constitutional Due Process. They didn't need the direct testimony of David Stanley to meet the burden of proof which can be met by indirect evidence or even the failure of a school to cooperate as required under NCAA rules. The voluntary statements made by David Stanley on television are not excluded from the NCAA standard for information. Evidence that might even be hearsay under normal rules of evidence are not necessarily excluded unless its irrelevant or immaterial. Here are the standards for admission of INFORMATION:

32.8.7.4 Type of Information. Any oral or documentary information may be received, but the Committee on Infractions may exclude information that it determines to be irrelevant, immaterial or unduly repetitious.

32.8.7.4.1 Information from Confidential Sources. In presenting information and evidence for consideration by the Committee on Infractions during an infractions hearing, the enforcement staff shall present only information that can be attributed to individuals who are willing to be identified. Information obtained from individuals not wishing to be identified shall not be relied on by the Committee on Infractions in making findings of violations. Such confidential sources shall not be identified to either the Committee on Infractions or the institution.

http://www.ncaapublications.com/product ... s/D110.pdf

[dbone]

I agree with all this and declare victory.

Stanley on TV was used as information to START an investigation. Stanley not talking to NCAA meant no usable evidence.

I'll go further...look up Laura Miller's DMN expose of UT in 1986...she got 28 players to admit to her that they received cash, gifts, meals, travel...everything. It was published in DMN in multiple articles with names and quotes and violations.It was enough for the NCAA to open an investigation. That's all. NCAA got nothing corroborated...so it was unusable.

UT was smarter than us...self investigated...admitted a few things...got a wrist slap. They also got something we never got...and is the reason we got the DP.

From the UT NCAA report: “these violations in the aggregate constitute a serious infractions case which puts the University of Texas in jeopardy of significantly more serious penalties should a major violation occur at the university in the future.”

That sentence meant that every undisclosed violation from before the report didn't exist. If we had had that sentence...we could have shut down our payment system without worrying about previous undisclosed violations coming to light...and David Stanley wouldn't exist.