Do recruiting critics want it both ways?

[Mitch McConnell]

I'm not going to argue with you because you have never been one to stay firm on any point...

Believe what you want..

That's right, Nick. You go with that. God forbid that another perspective actually open your eyes to make you realize something else could be in play.

I think you see what you want to see and will stick with that because you've already made up your mind -- future results be damned.

78 - we will agree to disagree on some. The stuff you call irrelevant or who cares is important. But you don't have to hitch up your pants and say your guess is better. That's a little silly.

[Garret]

interesting thread from a Hawaii board from 2008. Don't know the context or who the "Lee Brothers" are, but you could cut Hawaii and paste SMU into a lot of the spaces.

http://mobile.sportshawaii.com/sh/viewt ... b0e6afe7a2


**note: not saying I agree with or endorse anything on the thread I've linked above...just interesting

The Lee brothers were assistants under JJ that became the offensive and defensive coordinators when McMackin took over. For years we had read that JJ was somehow holding them back and if they were set loose in recruiting in Hawaii, half of the top 10 recruits in Hawaii would commit to UH.

JJ left.
They were set loose.
1 or 2 of the top 10 recruits in Hawaii were in Hawaii's recruiting class (and sometimes they were nonqualifiers that UH knew would probably not qualify but made the recruiting class look better on NLI day)

So, the net effect of the Lee brothers being set loose is that UH got *less* of the top recruits in Hawaii than in many years under JJ. JJ basically got the entire top 10 to sign with UH in 1999.

Ron Lee was demoted from offensive coordinator and retired a year later.

Cal Lee was demoted from defensive coordinator and still DE coach, with my guess being that he's waiting to have enough years to qualify for a state pension.

All of the fans who "knew" that recruiting in Hawaii would be better once the Lee brothers were set loose and that JJ was somehow holding them back...seem to have wiped what they had been saying for years from their memory. Hawaii is the only D-IA school in the state, but the Pac-12 is hard to beat out for recruits, with Texas Tech and some SEC schools taking some also. It wasn't as simple as offering the top recruits scholarships and wooing them...being in an inferior conference resulted in the top recruits going elsewhere over and over again.

[78pony]

Mitch, sorry. I assumed you could piece the tea leaves together and get the picture. Most of my response was based on fact, not speculation or guesses. I can be found most days in 75275.

[Stallion]

Even if you don't happen to be suck-buddies with the Coaches you can't help but get definite impressions from reading the hundreds of reports on recruits from multiple recruiting sources on which Coaches are doing the heavy lifting. Our sites invariably ask about which Coaches are recruiting each player. The players respond with direct quotes. About 3-4ths of the time its Klemm. Then you got Reinbold and Odum splitting the rest. Reinbold makes his well publicized weekend passes through DFW and Houston (spouting crap like "We're going to start kickin' the crap out of Texas for Top Recruits but then retreats for a month wandering the backwoods of Louisiana eating crawfish on the Bayou. An occassional Bert Hill. I mean there are about 4 Coaches whose names NEVER come up. EVER. And there are a couple of Coaches whose names especially never come up with regard to top prospects. We have no go-to recruiter in either DFW or Houston which I find absolutely incredible-very unusual recruiting strategy shared by no other Texas team that I've ever observed. It might not be a complete picture but when hundreds of stories provide factual detail and its the same thing ever year then I'm going to be drawing some conclusions.

[78pony]

Stallion is an intelligent guy. He can put the puzzle pieces together. He's got it.

[One Trick Pony]

Is the sky falling.

[PK]

Here is a thought that may have no traction, but not everyone is blessed with the same gifts in life. Perhaps some of these coaches are really great "coaches" but not so great "recruiters." Doesn't do any good to throw someone out there to recruit who can't. Perhaps their recruiting job is to evaluate player films, etc. and then let the "recruiters" go after the selected players. Perhaps not an ideal situation, but it may be the reality. Just a thought.

[Stallion]

I think most of us agree with that (and that's what we are worried about).

[2ndandlong]

I think most of us agree with that (and that's what we are worried about).

I agree. And am worried about it.

[ponyboy]

Which team -- ever -- did not have this dynamic? Do some of you just enjoy worrying?

All that matters is the results in February.

[Mitch McConnell]

Mitch, sorry. I assumed you could piece the tea leaves together and get the picture. Most of my response was based on fact, not speculation or guesses. I can be found most days in 75275.

You see, 78, you're missing the point. I thought you would be able to carve through the sarcasm in some of those questions. Sorry if you didn't get it.

FWIW -- I really don't have any interest in piecing tea leaves together and drawing conclusions. I really don't care. I just read the stuff on Rivals and take it face value. Recruiting is a crapshoot. I think Jonathan Gray may be the best running back I've seen in person in the last 10 years. Better than Adrian Peterson. It doesn't mean he's going to light it up at UT. He could be a bust.

The point of this was to ruffle some feathers and make some of you justify your angst. You were a little ridiculous in your responses. In some, we agreed. Stallion always likes to take his predictable shots at anyone who has a relationship with a coach. He will automatically view that as biased and that person is considered a a conduit to relay talking points. He's not as impartial as he'd like to think he is, and he knows why. Nick should be embarrassed over his responses.

And since it would appear that you work there, have an assumed name, and apparently throwing the staff under the bus, that's your choice.

The ironic thing is that I don't even like June Jones and can't stand his offense either. Everybody on this board knew where I stood on June from Day 1. (BTW Nick, I'm sure you've forgotten that firm stance )

I don't think I need to worry because I'm going to let you and Stallion and others do that for me.

[well travelled pony]

Not a critic, but just want everyone to concentrate on the best for SMU and the team. My general feeling is that we still have a bit to overcome in general feelings to SMU in the DFW area and Texas. I only say this as I still have many friends in the area. I moved away after graduation, but have made return visits. I see my own son, 9 years old, more of a SMU fan than most of they friends' kids. Why? Rabid alumni pop. He still remembers the "Go Ponies beat the tar heels." Yes, this was in soccer, but it still is in his little head. He went to the ecu game, and had a ball. My friends don't go to many games in Dallas. The biggest trips to Ford always were my doing on trips back to the big D. They (the kids) all think more of other programs and schools, including ut. (Excuse me, I just threw up.) Anyway, I still feel this is a thread that runs through the area. Win more, get better, and we can get the local kids back. My two cents, enjoy. GO PONIES!

[ponyboy]

Makes perfect sense. Thanks for your thoughts.

[PonyGirl]

The hand wringing over SMU's recruiting efforts this winter/spring are perceived to be poor. My concern has been over what has not been done in Texas, but I think there is more to the Texas issue than what people believe.

The critics need to be challenged.

1. While we can agree that basing in Texas should be a given...

There has been no such universal agreement. Just because you think recruiting should be based in Texas doesn't mean anyone else thinks so ... and I respectfully disagree. Recruiting should be "based" (if there is such a thing) where the best players willing to play for SMU are.

[PonyGirl]

Nick, maybe you don't know as much as you think you do...

Quite possibly the biggest teapot/kettle comment in the history of PonyFans.com!