Did The Wait Hurt us or Not?

[Mountain Mustang]

As we all know, there was wide ranging speculation on this board that our decision to wait so long to hire Jones was going to severely damage SMU's recruiting class.

Everyone on the site seems to be very happy with the class that we got, given our time constraints. My question is how does this class stack up with classes in previous years under Bennett, when he had a full recruiting season?

I have yet to see one person say "See I told you so, waiting so long to get Jones was a huge mistake and killed recruiting." It seemed like before we had Jones hired people were saying a wait this long was catastrophic to the program. In fact here's 2 quotes from the "Back To Reality- Jones Not interested" posted by Stallion--

Quote #1

....and now Orsini's track record includes the longest. hapless search for a Head Coach in NCAA History. Rarely, has an AD actually caused his own team to be so competitively disadvantaged by his own conduct. This recruiting year will have the effect of a Year of Probation on the competitive strength of the program. I see one Coach who might be able to hit the floor running and have any kind of success in this recruiting year and that would be Franchione. The rest will simply select from leftovers. It didn't have to be this way.

Quote #2:
I have told you so! You are right. Just like I told you 4-5 years before just about every recruiting class for the last 10 years has been mediocre at best. Or before every single football season that SMU didn't have a bowl quality football team. I don't give a [deleted] what the morons on this board think-I've been correct. Better start listening to some of those with a clue and a track record. Once again, serious competitive damage has been done to this program by this prolonged coaching search-and if they don't get a damn Coach in here with a Coaching Staff NOW-more serious competitive damage will be done. Everybody but the posters who have their head up Orsini's [deleted] understand this. What's more the end of the line is in sight. Even Coaches who may be considering this job may have second thoughts if they can't hit the recruiting race on their feet with a full Coaching Staff. Another warning-this team has a bunch of players who have gone 2 months without a Coach. The longer this goes on the more likely there are transfer defections from SMU players

Stallion wasn't the only one who had opinions like this; in fact there were many others. I found these quotes in just a few minutes of looking on this one thread. I would just like to hear an honest response from some who shared this opinion. Was the wait, and this class a disaster as depicted before the Jones hire?

[Stallion]

This is AMONG the weakest SMU classes in modern post DP history and has more out in left field sleepers than probably any class since 1989-there are 12-15 players who can only be described as sleepers. The thing that makes this class passable is a JUCO non-qualifier out of high school and a quality D1A transfer-players who most likely would not have been admitted under previous regimes. This class is ranked higher than some previous SMU classes largely because the 28 signees.

[Argyle Pony]

Probably knocked us out of some more developed ball players. Recruiting the right way takes time to really do it right. We probably did as well as possible with the time we had. Really, in some ways, we are already behind some schools for next year's recruiting. Planning ahead and making proper contacts take all year...coaches have to attend football games, do background checks, make their presents known, break down barriers that have come between us and schools because of previous attitudes, and develope positive feelings in the community about our school and football program. Winning helps cure many of the problems in recruiting. Time is very important and we will see a different type team recruited next year...or we had better. I feel we got a good group for what was left but next year has to be much better and I believe it will...but winning will help us turn the corner....Go Mustangs!!!

[MustangIcon]

This is AMONG the weakest SMU classes in modern post DP history and has more out in left field sleepers than probably any class since 1989-there are 12-15 players who can only be described as sleepers. The thing that makes this class passable is a JUCO non-qualifier out of high school and a quality D1A transfer-players who most likely would not have been admitted under previous regimes. This class is ranked higher than some previous SMU classes largely because the 28 signees.

Well, if we are talking rankings then this class of 28 had only 4 players rated below 5.2 whereas last year's class of 23 had 8 players rated below 5.2. Both classes included 4 3-star players (this class 5 3-stars if you count Alex O). So to me it would have to be considerd better than last year's class, rankings wise, even without the additional players, right? That is pretty impressive when you consider JJ had only 3 weeks coming off a 1-11 season to throw it together.

And frankly, I have a lot more faith in June Jones to identify and groom "sleepers" that will work well in his system than I ever did in Bennett. "A lot more faith" might be the understatement of the year in fact.

[MustangIcon]

Probably knocked us out of some more developed ball players. Recruiting the right way takes time to really do it right. We probably did as well as possible with the time we had. Really, in some ways, we are already behind some schools for next year's recruiting. Planning ahead and making proper contacts take all year...coaches have to attend football games, do background checks, make their presents known, break down barriers that have come between us and schools because of previous attitudes, and develope positive feelings in the community about our school and football program. Winning helps cure many of the problems in recruiting. Time is very important and we will see a different type team recruited next year...or we had better. I feel we got a good group for what was left but next year has to be much better and I believe it will...but winning will help us turn the corner....Go Mustangs!!!

I think you mean presence. Making our presents known is exactly what got us in trouble in the 80's.

[mathman]

This is AMONG the weakest SMU classes in modern post DP history and has more out in left field sleepers than probably any class since 1989-there are 12-15 players who can only be described as sleepers. The thing that makes this class passable is a JUCO non-qualifier out of high school and a quality D1A transfer-players who most likely would not have been admitted under previous regimes. This class is ranked higher than some previous SMU classes largely because the 28 signees.

The part I don't understand about that is this: If I understand the points system Rivals uses, a 2* gets 3 points and a 3* gets 8 points. I am not talking about any of the bonus points and other stuff they add in. Just plain vanilla 2 and 3 star players. Now if that is the case, we should have 104 points if they gave us credit for all 28 signees. 32 points for the 3 stars and 72 points for the remaining 24 2 stars. They show us with 80 points. If I assume they gave us the 32 points for the 3 stars, then that means the other 24 2 star recruits were given a total of 48 points. So I don't know that the large signing class pushed us up any. With the 4 three star recruits we had, all we would need to get to 80 points is 16 2 stars for a total of 20 recruits. Hope this makes some sort of sense.

[Big Hoss]

Argyle Pony, two rebuttals I might have for you about being behind other schools in recruiting for next season:

1) Because JJ & his staff were neck deep in recruiting from their time at Hawaii, so they probably already have their eye on kids for next season.

2) JJ will still be receiving a large number of DVDs & tapes from kids who are interested in playing for him. And personally, I think coming to the mainland at a school in the middle of the country will get kids interested in coming to play for him that wouldn't necessarily have considered playing at Hawaii. I think that because of a comment JJ made at the press conference yesterday. He said something to the effect of "mainland kids will probably stay on the mainland, and island kids will probably stay on the island" referring to kids he was already recruiting at Hawaii (like Bo Levi Mitchell) that he was able to get to follow him here this season. But I think that can apply to potential recruits going forward as well.

[ponydawg]

Did the wait hurt us? No, the wait allowed us to get a better coach.
If we would have hired a coach right after firing PB, could we have gotten a class with more names, stars, and offers? Probably, but I would rather have June and the class we have than Fran and a more well known class.
If we wouldn't have fired PB our class would be similar or worse, but I still believe firmly in what the blogger said along the lines of June being able to find players that fit his schemes.

And this might be coach talk but interesting what he said to kate the great:
"Jones said the level of talent he signed Wednesday was as good as any he had in nine seasons in Hawaii."

[Mountain Mustang]

I guess the larger question I'm asking is should our expectations of what coach Jones can do here in the immediate future be altered or lowered because of the shortened recruiting season he had to deal with?

Obviously I know that good coaching can help cover up some of these problems, but many have said that it's recruiting that really counts, and coaching is almost secondary.

[OC Mustang]

This is AMONG the weakest SMU classes in modern post DP history and has more out in left field sleepers than probably any class since 1989-there are 12-15 players who can only be described as sleepers. The thing that makes this class passable is a JUCO non-qualifier out of high school and a quality D1A transfer-players who most likely would not have been admitted under previous regimes. This class is ranked higher than some previous SMU classes largely because the 28 signees.

"AMONG"...okay, I'll buy the sleeper comments. However, you need to do better than "AMONG". By any measure, Jones produced the same level class in a fraction of the time as Bennett did, so...handicapped for the time period involved (as well as the JUCO & Xfer you mention), I'd say Jones kept recruiting from completely going down the tubes. I think it is a matter of degree. It isn't "drinking the kool-aid" if you concede that he did better than you thought he would, even if it historically has parity with other not-so-great classes or recruits.

Could he have done better if hired earlier? What do you think? I dunno. If Jones was here earlier, would he have had the same attraction after playing (albeit, getting killed) in the Sugar Bowl? Incredible crapshoot on Orsini's part. But it is what it is. All of the "should have-could have" drivel just doesn't mean anything.

[Stallion]

RIVALS RANKING AVAILIABLE ON LINE

TOTAL AVERAGE

2008 89-94(Tied) 89-90(tied)
2007 98 83
2006 107(16 recruits) 82
2005 81 71
2004 76 85
2003 62 60
2002 69 87


This is in response to a realitic view on the recruiting class. No sliding curve. Really by definition you are using a sliding curve when comparing this class to Phil Bennett who won about 18 games in 6 years. Phil Bennett was a mediocre recruiter.

[George S. Patton]

This argument is ridiculous. There is too much knee-jerk on this class. Heck, if a 1/3 of the kids pan out, consider that a victory.

I want to see what is assembled for signing day 2007 before we know anything. Jones' recruiting history has been sketchy because his methods are different. Once he plants his flag in the ground, we'll get a better idea. His name makes difference. But he also has to close some kids.

Hell, look at Tim Brewster -- a well-known recruiter -- at Minnesota. The guy walked into a similar situation at Minnesota -- Jan. 16, 2007 -- inherited a class and made a couple of additions and some after signing day. Minnesota's ranking was in the 50s or 60s.

He got a full year behind him and produced a Top 20 class. The negative -- he only got 1 of the top 5 in that Minnesota. The positive -- he went all over the nation and got kids.

In my opinion, you really have to wait until the following year to find out how effective he is.

[giacfsp]

This is AMONG the weakest SMU classes in modern post DP history and has more out in left field sleepers than probably any class since 1989-there are 12-15 players who can only be described as sleepers.

You're right - it's "among" the 20 weakest classess since football returned. It's also "among" the 20 strongest. To refer to folks as sleepers when we basically know nothing about them is insane. Once again, this class can't be ranked for a few years. Until then, I'll gladly take a class with a quarterback who had been committed to Hawaii (where the former coaching staff knew a little something about the passing game), a 6-6 receiver who can run a 4.5, a LB who started games in the Big 12 in each of his two years, an OL with an SEC offer, a DE with about 30 offers, etc.

Will they all pan out? Nope - neither will everyone in USC's class or Miami's or Michigan's or Clemson's or the other top-rated classes. If you don't think these coaches can identify talent, you haven't watched Hawaii in recent years. I'm guessing they have found some good players, whether or not they were on any computer-geek's "lists."

[2112]

stallion is flat dead wrong on things all of the time......he just doesn't bring those back up. like 1.orsini's self imposed 4-5 year probation,-dead wrong. 2.june jones was never coming to smu, "get over it, and "get back to reality".-dead wrong. 3. Evan Huahulu was in "no way" going to play defenive tackle.-wrong again. these are just recent stallion train wrecks, that he is never man enough to own up to, and people on ponyfans are too nice to not burn him at the stake.

[EastStang]

The answer is we don't know. The class is in the ballpark of a Bennett class. Would it have been better if we'd hired a coach earlier? Maybe, but maybe not. Who would have been the coach? What would deal would he have struck with the administration regarding recruiting issues? There are so many intangibles. My personal view is that we got a very good coach who knows how to get by with marginal talent. Hopefully, he can get this bunch whipped into shape so that we'll have a passable year next year and he can recruit some even better players next year. Obviously, whomever took over the job was selling a 1-11 team to recruits. I believe that issue alone would have cost us recruits.