Scholarships Left? + JUCO question

[SMU2007]

So how many scholarships do we have left to give? And can someone explain to me how the JUCO recruiting works? Do those scholarships count the same as for any other player and when is the timeline for JUCO recruits?

[SMU21TCU10]

I believe a JUCO counts the same.

[HFvictory]

So how many scholarships do we have left to give? And can someone explain to me how the JUCO recruiting works? Do those scholarships count the same as for any other player and when is the timeline for JUCO recruits?

A JUCO on scholarship uses a spot just the same as a HS recruit on scholly and they generally sign on the normal signing date for football recruits. Exception of mid-term transfers whether JUCO or HS in that they can sign early in December.

A JUCU generally will have 3 years to play 2, but there are variations. For instance, TCU signed two JUCOs late last year, Adams & Teague and each were exceptions to the general rule.

Adams was fully qualified out of HS so didn't need the 2 year degree to qualfy to play. He played one season at Tyler and then signed with TCU so will have 4 years to play 3. Teague needed the two-year degree but took a RS his 1st year and signed after playing his second year. He will have 3 years to play 3 at TCU.

[The XtC]

Have the rules changed? My understanding was always that a non-qualifier needed to finish a degree at a 4 year school, in 4 years, in order to get the 5th year. A 2-year degree was necessary to be eligible at a D-1 school, but was not enough to get the 5th year. I dont think your guy has a redshirt from JC, not if he was enrolled full time that first year. I think he has 2 years to play 2.

[HFvictory]

Have the rules changed? My understanding was always that a non-qualifier needed to finish a degree at a 4 year school, in 4 years, in order to get the 5th year. A 2-year degree was necessary to be eligible at a D-1 school, but was not enough to get the 5th year. I dont think your guy has a redshirt from JC, not if he was enrolled full time that first year. I think he has 2 years to play 2.

You are confusing the rules for non-qualifiers and partial-qualifiers. Most conferences no longer allow PQs, but not sure what C-USA allows (I believe it is one on the roster at a time, but may be wrong). MWC does not allow PQs nor does the Big XII though they did a few years ago.

As far as Teague, the NCAA rules for teams in the BCS (formerly Div1A), the clock starts once you enroll full-time at any institution of higher learning, including junior colleges, and from that point on you have 5 years to play 4. Teague did not play that 1st year and got his 2 year degree after year 2 in which he did play. He has 3 years to play 3 and one of those could have been at the JC level if he did not get an 'ship from a 4 year program.

[The XtC]

[quote="HFvictory"][quote="The XtC"]Have the rules changed? My understanding was always that a non-qualifier needed to finish a degree at a 4 year school, in 4 years, in order to get the 5th year. A 2-year degree was necessary to be eligible at a D-1 school, but was not enough to get the 5th year. I dont think your guy has a redshirt from JC, not if he was enrolled full time that first year. I think he has 2 years to play 2.[/quote]

You are confusing the rules for non-qualifiers and partial-qualifiers. Most conferences no longer allow PQs, but not sure what C-USA allows (I believe it is one on the roster at a time, but may be wrong). MWC does not allow PQs nor does the Big XII though they did a few years ago.

As far as Teague, the NCAA rules for teams in the BCS (formerly Div1A), the clock starts once you enroll full-time at any institution of higher learning, including junior colleges, and from that point on you have 5 years to play 4. Teague did not play that 1st year and got his 2 year degree after year 2 in which he did play. He has 3 years to play 3 and one of those could have been at the JC level if he did not get an 'ship from a 4 year program.[/quote]

You got me there, amigo, I am now seriously confused. I was under the impression that there was no such thing as a "partial" qualifier anymore. I'm mystified. Even my trusty, dusty NCAA manual appears to be no help in this situation, because on page 129, the only description it gives completely omits any info on "partial" qualifiers. It reads like this:

14.02.9 Qualification Status.
14.02.9.1 Qualifier. A qualifier is a student who, for purposes of determining eligibility for financial aid,
practice and competition, has met all of the following requirements (see Bylaw 14.3):
(a) Graduation from high school;
(b) Successful completion of a required core curriculum consisting of a minimum number of courses in
specified subjects;
(c) Specified minimum grade-point average in the core curriculum; and
(d) Specified minimum SAT or ACT score.
14.02.9.2 Nonqualifier. A nonqualifier is a student who has not graduated from high school or who, at the
time specified in the regulation (see Bylaw 14.3), has not successfully completed the required core-curriculum or
has not presented the required minimum core-curriculum grade-point average and/or the corresponding SAT/
ACT score required for a qualifier.


Even when I skip ahead a bit to section 14.3 (page 142), the manual goes into great detail describing qualifiers and non-qualifiers, but not a single word about "partial" qualifiers. So, I'm going to have to ask you to help me out, here. Could you click on the link I'm going to provide you, to an online copy of the NCAA manual, and tell me what page and what section covers partial qualifiers? I'd appreciate it ever so deeply, because I just cant seem to find it. Here you go:

http://www.ncaapublications.com/Uploads ... 7c16bc.pdf

Let me know what you find, thanks a bunch.

[Mustang22]

That was a good question about amount of scholarships being left. Rivals explained all that today:

http://smu.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=2 ... 74&style=2

[HFvictory]

That was a good question about amount of scholarships being left. Rivals explained all that today:

http://smu.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=2 ... 74&style=2

For those w/o access, what was the answer?

[HFvictory]

XTC:

Here is a link to the "old" PQ rules which are what you were initially refering to:

http://www.ath.umich.edu/compliance/clearinghouse/

The NCAA has removed the PQ status, but certain conferences allow PQs on appeal to the NCAA. The SEC and Big East continue to allow PQs or NQs with an asterix as they sometimes refer to them.

Anyway, the original point is that the rules you stated were those that existed for PQs, not for JUCOs.

[The XtC]

[quote="HFvictory"]XTC:

Here is a link to the "old" PQ rules which are what you were initially refering to:

http://www.ath.umich.edu/compliance/clearinghouse/

The NCAA has removed the PQ status, but certain conferences allow PQs on appeal to the NCAA. The SEC and Big East continue to allow PQs or NQs with an asterix as they sometimes refer to them.

Anyway, the original point is that the rules you stated were those that existed for PQs, not for JUCOs.[/quote]

No, the rules I stated were for Non-qualifiers, and if your player Teague had to graduate from JC in order to be eligible at a D1 school, then he was a non-qualifier.

I'm aware of the appeals process, but all that does is allow a non-qualifier at a 4 year school to practice with the team during the year that he sits out (as a partial qualifier was allowed to, prior to dropping the designation) it does not restore his eligibility for that year, or allow him to redshirt. Non-qualifiers can only play 3 years, unless they finish their degree in 4. The year that Teague sat out in JC isnt a redshirt, unless he earns a degree from TCU. Right now he has 2 years to play 2, if he graduates, then he has 3 years to play 3.

[HFvictory]

XTC:

Here is a link to the "old" PQ rules which are what you were initially refering to:

http://www.ath.umich.edu/compliance/clearinghouse/

The NCAA has removed the PQ status, but certain conferences allow PQs on appeal to the NCAA. The SEC and Big East continue to allow PQs or NQs with an asterix as they sometimes refer to them.

Anyway, the original point is that the rules you stated were those that existed for PQs, not for JUCOs.

No, the rules I stated were for Non-qualifiers, and if your player Teague had to graduate from JC in order to be eligible at a D1 school, then he was a non-qualifier.

I'm aware of the appeals process, but all that does is allow a non-qualifier at a 4 year school to practice with the team during the year that he sits out (as a partial qualifier was allowed to, prior to dropping the designation) it does not restore his eligibility for that year, or allow him to redshirt. Non-qualifiers can only play 3 years, unless they finish their degree in 4. The year that Teague sat out in JC isnt a redshirt, unless he earns a degree from TCU. Right now he has 2 years to play 2, if he graduates, then he has 3 years to play 3.

Sorry but you are wrong. He has 3 to play 3 and if you don't like it take it up with the clearinghouse. if you can't understand the rules you need to quit trying to assert your own.

The original rules you talked about were for PQs. A non-qualifier who graduates from a two-year program is qualified and the eligibility carries over. He isn't required to do anything over and above what is required from a qualifier out of HS to get a 5th year. He doesn't need to appeal, he doesn't need to graduate, he just needs to stay in school like anyone else.

Show me where in the rules does it state anything else. I know what Teague's status is and there wasn't any appeal filed to accomplish it so bottom-line that is it despite your acclamations elsewise.

[The XtC]

[quote="HFvictory"][quote="The XtC"][quote="HFvictory"]XTC:

Here is a link to the "old" PQ rules which are what you were initially refering to:

http://www.ath.umich.edu/compliance/clearinghouse/

The NCAA has removed the PQ status, but certain conferences allow PQs on appeal to the NCAA. The SEC and Big East continue to allow PQs or NQs with an asterix as they sometimes refer to them.

Anyway, the original point is that the rules you stated were those that existed for PQs, not for JUCOs.[/quote]

No, the rules I stated were for Non-qualifiers, and if your player Teague had to graduate from JC in order to be eligible at a D1 school, then he was a non-qualifier.

I'm aware of the appeals process, but all that does is allow a non-qualifier at a 4 year school to practice with the team during the year that he sits out (as a partial qualifier was allowed to, prior to dropping the designation) it does not restore his eligibility for that year, or allow him to redshirt. Non-qualifiers can only play 3 years, unless they finish their degree in 4. The year that Teague sat out in JC isnt a redshirt, unless he earns a degree from TCU. Right now he has 2 years to play 2, if he graduates, then he has 3 years to play 3.[/quote]

Sorry but you are wrong. He has 3 to play 3 and if you don't like it take it up with the clearinghouse. if you can't understand the rules you need to quit trying to assert your own.

The original rules you talked about were for PQs. A non-qualifier who graduates from a two-year program is qualified and the eligibility carries over. He isn't required to do anything over and above what is required from a qualifier out of HS to get a 5th year. He doesn't need to appeal, he doesn't need to graduate, he just needs to stay in school like anyone else.

Show me where in the rules does it state anything else. I know what Teague's status is and there wasn't any appeal filed to accomplish it so bottom-line that is it despite your acclamations elsewise.[/quote]

Not a problem, I can show you exactly what I'm talking about, because despite what you seem to to think, I'm not making this up I'm reading it straight out of the NCAA manual. I'm talking about non-qualifiers, not partial. You are the one who brought up partial qualifiers, which despite your claims that some conferences still take them, actually no longer exist.

Let's start with:

14.3.2.1 Nonqualifier. A nonqualifier is a student who has not graduated from high school or who, at the time specified in the regulation (see Bylaw 14.3), did not present the core-curriculum grade-point average and/
or SAT/ACT score required for a qualifier.

and then:

14.3.3 Seasons of Competition—Nonqualifier. Nonqualifiers, recruited or nonrecruited, shall not engage in more than three seasons of competition in any one sport.

and finally:

14.3.3.1 Fourth Season of Competition—Not a Qualifier. A fourth season of intercollegiate competition shall be granted to a student-athlete who is not a qualifier, provided that at the beginning of the fifth academic
year following the student-athlete’s initial, full-time collegiate enrollment, the student-athlete has completed at least 80 percent of his or her designated degree program. (Revised: 4/28/05, effective 8/1/05, 1/3/06)

They've changed graduation to 80%, but the interpretation is the same, the player has 3 years of eligibility, and can get the 4th year if he shows sufficient academic progress before his 5th year of enrollment begins. Teague played one year at aJC, so he has 2 years left and can have a 3rd if he completes 80% of his degree, which shouldnt be too hard if he already has 48 transferable hours from his junior college. (80% would be 96 hours).

Now, I'm not saying that this is the only possible interpretation. If you can show me in the manual (again, a link is provided for the online version in my post above) that states that a non-qualifier becomes fully qualified if he graduates from a two year school, I'll believe it. I'm not saying either way that this is correct or incorrect, I'm saying that I have never read a rule that says this. If you show me the actual NCAA rule, I'll believe you.


Transfer regulations begin in section 14.5, and I did notice this revision that takes effect this year:

The following Bylaw was adopted at the April 24, 2008, Board of Directors meeting, effective August 1, 2009.
14.5.4.2 Not a Qualifier. A transfer student from a two-year college who was not a qualifier (per Bylaw 14.3.1.1) is eligible for institutional financial aid, practice and competition the first academic year in residence
only if the student: (Revised: 1/10/90 effective 8/1/90, 1/9/96 effective 8/1/96, 4/24/03 effective 8/1/03, 6/1/06, 4/24/08 effective 8/1/08 for student-athletes enrolling full time in a collegiate institution on or after 8/1/08, 4/24/08 effective 8/1/09 for student-athletes initially enrolling full time in a collegiate institution on or after 8/1/09)
(a) Has graduated from the two-year college;
(b) Has completed satisfactorily a minimum of 48-semester or 72-quarter hours of transferable-degree credit acceptable toward any baccalaureate degree program at the certifying institution, including six semester
or eight quarter hours of transferable English credit and three semester or four quarter hours of transferable math credit;
(c) Has attended a two-year college as a full-time student for at least three semesters or four quarters (excluding summer terms); and
(d) Has achieved a cumulative grade-point average of 2.000 (see Bylaw 14.5.4.5.3.2).

This doesnt say anything about a non-qualifier becoming a full qualifier, though, so my initial intrepretation that a non-qualifier must complete his degree (or 80%) to get his 4th year of eligibility still stands.

So, in response to your request, I have shown you the exact rules I've been talking about. I would appreciate it if you could do the same. Sincerely, if there is a truly a rule that graduation from a 2 year school makes a non-qualifier a full-qualifier, I would like to read it. Thanks.