Chase Ellis

[Fresh]

What's the status on this Arlington Martin linebacker?
He's supposed to be uinbelievably fast - is he still considering us? Are we still considering him?

[Stallion]

I'm really not sure. His visits are set for Iowa St., Baylor and Houston but he has interest from hometown schools SMU and TCU. Is not unusual for a kid to take an unofficial to local schools. Offered by Army and Navy but lastest report didn't mention the previously reported offers from any of the other above schools. He is reportedly 6-3,220 4.56 which if true is outstanding for a LB.

[Silk]

His size and speed are too appealing to pass up!
There's no chance of getting him as an invited walk-on, is there?

[Charleston Pony]

how does Ellis drop off the board on signiong day? Is he interested in one of the Academies? I agree he would make a great walk-on candidate, assuming scholarship money was available somewhere. Anyone know what kind of student he is and what his interests might be?

[Stallion]

...his stock dropped at least by early January when he didn't get any visits until I think the week before signing date. This is an example of how I feel a player is overrated if a service doesn't account for the lack of recruiting interest in a player by the paid proffessionals-the coaches. I'm not aware of any academic issue. Otherwise, your suggesting that the Max Emfingers and other recruiting services can really judge Division 1 talent something I, perhaps surprisingly, to some of you do not really believe. I look at the recruiting services to determine offers and visits not the evaluation of the recruiting gurus. The coaches are the experts.

[MUSTANGFOREVER69]

Stallion, I think that's the most eloquent and succinct post you've made about the value of the cottage industry of self-proclaimed regruiting gerus. They don't know a damn thing about the true potential of any kid they include in their lists. The coaches do, however; because that's their job - and, they're qualified to make evaluations of high school athletes' abilities to become Division 1-A college football players and students. And, those sports writers who publish their lists in the various newspapers know even less.

[HorsePower]

A. Many of the newspapers that print lists get those lists directly from recruiting services. Therefore, you're suggesting that the recruiting experts — who generate the lists — know less than themselves? Peculiar logic.

B. Everyone makes mistakes on recruiting — including coaches. For every recruiting analyst who identifies a "can't miss" prospect, there are legions of coaches lined to sign the kid. When the kid doesn't reach his potential (due to injury, academics, less-than-projected physical development, off the field issues, or .... incorrect analysis while playing in high school), are the coaches who scouted the kid still smarter than the analysts and sportswriters who sang his praises? After all, it's the coaches who couldn't get out of the kid what they thought they'd seen in him.

You're right in that recruiting is educated guesswork, at best. And that applies to coaches, recruiting analysts and sportswriters. All of them have to sift through piles of hype from HS coaches who all think their player is the next D-I superstar.

If we hold the predictions and analysis of recruiting guys and sportswriters as gospel, perhaps it's us, the fans, who really know nothing. Recruiting information on players who are still in high school is background for predicting success or failure. Predictions are never guaranteed.

[Stallion]

yes the newspapers are much worse because they are relying on older information even if it is direct from the recruiting services which is sometimes but not always the case. Those lists are often created BEFORE the players senior season when he should be reaching his potential. The newspaper lists can't make adjustments based on development and recruiting interest or disinterest from Top Division 1 programs.

[MUSTANGFOREVER69]

I didn't say that coaches are perfect in their analyses of high school FB players. I simply said that I have a lot more faith in a coach's analysis than I do in that of a recruiting guru or a sports writer who writes his/her column based upon information obtained from a recruiting guru.

You're absolutely correct about your statements that analyses of high school FB prospects is an inexact art at best. But, I still believe that someone who makes his living in doing so (i.e. a coach) is a far better gamble to rely upon than someone whose job doesn't depend upon it (a recruiting guru or sports writer).

[Stallion]

I agree 100% . I was responding to the poster who said that the newspapers were no worse than the recruiting services because they rely on the recruiting services. The DMN is just about the only one I know that relies solely on Rivals. Most let the local sportswriter pick the top players from various sources including coaches, recruiting services and high school writers. Invariably, the Waco paper will lean toward Baylor recruits, the Lubbock paper toward Tech recruits and the Fort Worth paper to TCU recruits. Usually, they will get burned by several players who don't receive Division 1 offers. That is how SMU got alleged "Top 100" players like Kelan Luker et al when they actually received very little Division 1 attention.

[This message has been edited by Stallion (edited 02-09-2003).]

[MUSTANGFOREVER69]

Stallion, I'm sure that you remember the old annual Blue Chip list which Blackie Sherrod put together when he was a sports writer for the Dallas Times Herald. It was based upon a poll of the SWC Head Coaches. And, sometimes there would be a caoch who refused to participate for various reasons. Anyway, the 1978 list included Eric Dickerson, Craig James, Charles Wagoner, and Michael Carter among others. We signed all of them along with Stanley Godine who was the highest "ranked" DB in the State along with the top WR (whose name eludes me at the moment). ED, James, and Michael Carter went on to greatness. Wagoner would have gone on to greatness but for his broken neck in the Tech game his freshman year. Godine never did anything and flunked out of school. And, the WR whose name I don't remember never qualified and didn't even get to attempt to play. That was the highest "ranked" class SMU has ever signed. And, it was based upon not only the recruiting gurus' analyses but also the analyses of the Head Coaches at the schools making up the old SWC.

I attended a preseason Football function here in Houston back in 1979, and Ron Myer was there to talk about the upcoming season. I asked him about Stanley Godine, and he got an angry look on his face and simply said, "Stanley Godine is a t__d." So much for evaluations of high school athletes and predictions for success. But, I'll still go with the coaches' evaluations over the recruiting gurus any day because their jobs depend upon their evaluations.

[Stallion]

...that's when I was working in the SIDs office. One of the two world class sprinters we signed that year was James Collier from Seagoville who was very highly recruited but I think there was another one I'm forgetting too. As for Stanley Godine-there never was a player at SMU that the coaches ragged on more than Godine-Marcus Mosely also took a lot of heat from Day 1 too. I think Godine gained about 25-30 pounds and never played. I just remember Godine running laps around practice to get in shape.

[MUSTANGFOREVER69]

Wasn't the WR's name Mitchell Bennett? I think he was from Bonham - North of Dallas. And he was the State 100 meters(yards?)champion.

And, you're right about James Collier from Seagoville. He did play and was a kick returner along with Michael Charles from Houston Kashmere (after Wagoner was injured).
Bennett was on the Times Herald list but Collier wasn't - though he was in Texas Football's top 300 list along with just about every player we signed in '78.

[Stallion]

darn I went to eat and remembered Mitchell Bennett while munching on a burger. You beat me to it.

[MUSTANGFOREVER69]

I guess I just finished my burger before you did. But, better yet, it appears that both of us have not destroyed all of our more important brain cells by imbibing our favorite spirits over the years.