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Here is an in-depth article on the 2003 WAC signees:

<A HREF="http://www.tulsasportsweb.com/news/display_news.cfm?article_id=3336&site=27" TARGET=_blank>2003 WAC Basketball Recruiting Overview</A>

Do note that our WAC rivals signed 25 JC/CC players and only 13 High School players. Of course, Rice as usual ruined the scale for the others. Are you sure SMU hasn't put Dement at a disadvantage? Of course, some of you still think JC/CC players are leftover rejects who couldn't get an offer out of High School.

[This message has been edited by Stallion (edited 06-12-2003).]

[This message has been edited by Stallion (edited 06-12-2003).]

Rest of WAC: 25 JC/CC players, 9 High School players
SMU and Rice: 0 JC/CC players, 7 High School players

Stallion, this is a keeper statistic during next season’s run to mediocrity.

A couple of JC big bodies could have easily made the difference between an NIT or NCAA bid last year and what we ended up with.

Could an NCAA bid last year tilt the difference between us and Tulsa in a C-USA beauty pageant? Who knows, but it couldn't hurt.

I was just trying to open the eyes of our friends who live in fairy-tale land.

Stallion, that is an incredible percentage of JUCO players. Wow, I had no idea it was that slanted. I was really hoping that Dement would bring in a PF/C JUCO player. I have to believe his hands are still tied when it comes to JUCO players.

Isnt it funny, then that Shumate was able to bring in so many transfers? What do you think happened between the Shumate and Dement eras?

What transfers did Shumate bring in?

Tijani and Jameil Rich off the top of my head.

I bet if you looked at every single JC recruit they were either full-qualifiers out of High School or Division 1 transfers. Plus the curiculm could have been very different in the early Shumate years when Pye was redirecting the school's academic programs. Otherwise, you are incredibly naive to think that the lack of JC transfers is the coaching Philosophy of Mike Dement and Phil Bennett(it is laughable to suggest that in Bennett's case based on his history)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Otto:
<B>What transfers did Shumate bring in?</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tijanni, Rich, Bracey, Bliss, Brown, Patterson, Wilson, Upshaw, Dorner, Chambers.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Stallion:
<B> I bet if you looked at every single JC recruit they were either full-qualifiers out of High School or Division 1 transfers. Plus the curiculm could have been very different in the early Shumate years when Pye was redirecting the school's academic programs. Otherwise, you are incredibly naive to think that the lack of JC transfers is the coaching Philosophy of Mike Dement and Phil Bennett(it is laughable to suggest that in Bennett's case based on his history)</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You lose the bet. Bracey was neither one. And that wasnt the early Pye/Shumate years.

CPC doesnt know Bennett at all and isnt going to speculate on his motives. But Dement hasnt tried to pursue very many JC players since his first year here, because he lost a kid named Doug Swenson. Swenson was a farm kid from North Dakota who majored in Farm Management. His Animal Husbandry class wouldnt transfer to SMU, so instead of taking one class in summer school he backed out of his commitment and went to Creighton, insead.

If full qualifiers somehow dont count under your rationale, you have to scratch off a couple of the people who are going to other WAC schools, as well. Logan Lee, Jeff Blackett and Jack Marlow were all full qualifiers, and probably some of the others. SMU tried to recruit Marlow out of high school, but he showed no interest. I dont think the Mustangs ever pursued Lee.

[This message has been edited by The CPC (edited 06-12-2003).]

hey you guys can believe whatever you want but based on my thorough knowledge of recruiting I can tell that SMU has not actively been recruiting JC players for at least 7 years unless they were full Division 1 qualifiers David Page(California) or Division 1 transfers. I really don't care anymore what happened 10 years ago. Obviously SMU had different majors, curriculm and transfer rules. It ain't happening today!!!!! I guess you would have us believe that Phil Bennett and his feloww K-State coaches who coached 44 some odd JC/CC player in 2001 suddenly got religion and decided to go strictly with HS players in 2002. I'm not that naive as there has not been a job Bennett has worked in 20 years that had that philosophy. Even Copeland when interviewed last year admitted that SMU's policies on JC transfers would not change. Please stop blaming the coaches for decisions made by the school.

[This message has been edited by Stallion (edited 06-12-2003).]

I think the main hang up is now transferable hours. Without a PE/Kinseology major, we can't get many juco transfers. I understand how an Ag major wouldn't be able to transfer his Animal husbandry classes, that's what A&M is for, and he wouldn't want to come here because we don't have fertilizing classes, just professors who sometimes spew fertilizer.

Jason B,

Please re-read this thread before meeting with the assistant AD.

While you may ask him to sign more JCs this year, I think a more insightful question is why are all our peers (sans that winning stalwart Rice) signing JCs/CCs and we are not? What specific obstacles are preventing us from competing for JCs and is our administration prepared to take action to correct it.

IMO, using Bobby Chase as an example of how we do sign JCs is a half-truth and completely ignoring the overwhelming evidence.

It would be helpful if someone such as Stallion could provide the number of K-State JC signings over the past few years.

Good Luck, Jason. I appreciate your concern and efforts.

I will see what he has to say.

What I am hoping to hear back is that we are chasing several JUCO players behind the scenes.

I have noticed that, for example, last year TT signed several JUCOs announced after signing day, and it was never reported on rivals that they were interested in those players. Sometimes the JUCO signings come out of nowhere. Much more often than the HS signings.

I hope (of course this is very optimistic) that the lack of noise on the recruiting front is due to the fact that we are moving after some of the JUCO players. But that is more of a wish than insider knowledge.