Baylor

[Digetydog]

someone answer this for me: how does Baylor consistently out recruit us?

All I will say is that we don't want to go about building our program the way they have built theirs. We want the same results, but we need to get them in a different way.

And I'll leave it at that.

And to the other poster's comments, I also don't understand how Baylor can get recruits to go to Waco and we can't get them to go Dallas. I realize the better conference is a factor, but we will have a better basketball conference moving forward. Why can't we outrecruit them in basketball moving forward?

Waco is not as bad as you think. I nearly married a Baylor girl and spent some time there.

1) The girl/guy ratio is very favorable. Furthermore, they have pretty large percentage of guys who are ... not that there is anything wrong with that.

2) When I was in Austin for grad school, the Baylor girls were by far the wildest girls in town. Frankly, the Baylor girls in Austin were insane/fun. Most of the girls at Baylor are just trying to get out from under the oppression of the Baptists.

3) If you live off campus, Baylor pretty much leaves you alone.

[peruna81]

someone answer this for me: how does Baylor consistently out recruit us?

All I will say is that we don't want to go about building our program the way they have built theirs. We want the same results, but we need to get them in a different way.

And I'll leave it at that.

I've heard reference to shady things that Baylor does but no one ever mentions any specifics. I'll leave this open to the forum but what exactly are they doing that is so bad? And if it was bad then wouldn't the NCAA be all over them by now?

And to the other poster's comments, I also don't understand how Baylor can get recruits to go to Waco and we can't get them to go Dallas. I realize the better conference is a factor, but we will have a better basketball conference moving forward. Why can't we outrecruit them in basketball moving forward?

Mr. Drew has had Big-12/NCAA folks sniffing around his work since he landed at Jerusalem on the Brazos. He is a great recruiter, and hires AAU and club-associated coaches/recruiters with the same mindset. Think Ron Meyer type recruiting 'show' and ability.

Much of SMU's problem is that we have not made inroads into the fertile DFW market of players, and Baylor/Texas/Kansas have...The next coach should have to start from the ground up with high school coaches and players, AND be able to sell BE conference B-ball as the hook. That alone will take years. We will be in for some lean years in the BEast.

I would not want to move into the 'good 'ol Baylor line' of recruiting...I do think that it is going to come back and bite them in the backside in the very near future. That said, if you believe any recruit would willingly and enthusiastically go to Waco with just the inducement of a 'good education', well, I have some beachfront property in College Station for sale.

[Mustangs_Maroons]

All I will say is that we don't want to go about building our program the way they have built theirs. We want the same results, but we need to get them in a different way.

And I'll leave it at that.

I've heard reference to shady things that Baylor does but no one ever mentions any specifics. I'll leave this open to the forum but what exactly are they doing that is so bad? And if it was bad then wouldn't the NCAA be all over them by now?

And to the other poster's comments, I also don't understand how Baylor can get recruits to go to Waco and we can't get them to go Dallas. I realize the better conference is a factor, but we will have a better basketball conference moving forward. Why can't we outrecruit them in basketball moving forward?

Mr. Drew has had Big-12/NCAA folks sniffing around his work since he landed at Jerusalem on the Brazos. He is a great recruiter, and hires AAU and club-associated coaches/recruiters with the same mindset. Think Ron Meyer type recruiting 'show' and ability.

Much of SMU's problem is that we have not made inroads into the fertile DFW market of players, and Baylor/Texas/Kansas have...The next coach should have to start from the ground up with high school coaches and players, AND be able to sell BE conference B-ball as the hook. That alone will take years. We will be in for some lean years in the BEast.

I would not want to move into the 'good 'ol Baylor line' of recruiting...I do think that it is going to come back and bite them in the backside in the very near future. That said, if you believe any recruit would willingly and enthusiastically go to Waco with just the inducement of a 'good education', well, I have some beachfront property in College Station for sale.

Haha. I think that is what I'm struggling with. I don't know understand how a recruit could go to WACO under the inducement of only a good education, particularly given their irrelevancy in basketball for so many years. We have a much better school and we're in a better city. I'm struggling understanding what they are doing vs. why they haven't gotten "caught" yet.

Thanks on the beachfront property near College Station offer but I like big cities. WACO and potentially college station (too many aggies) would be the death of me. I passed through WACO on my way to Austin a few times and unless you want to start your own cult I can't see the rationale for living there.

[Sic_em]

Baylor fan here. Also an SMU fan. I have degrees from both schools. I'm not objective, just wanted to get all that out of the way.

I have also heard lots of comments from opposing fans that Baylor is shady. Ask for specifics and you don't get many, mostly this: "Well, look at these stud players they're getting to come to WACO???...they've got to be cheating."

I'm not going to claim that we're lily-white clean, I don't think that any program is, but here are some observations I'd like to make:

1. Baylor has not been an overnight success in recruiting. Drew has been at Baylor 9 seasons now. I think he may be the 2nd or 3rd longest tenured coach in the Big 12 along with Self and Barnes.

2. Baylor didn't land a top 30 recruit until they got Lace Dunn in year 5. Early on, they got guys like Aaron Bruce and Mamadou Diene who weren't highly recruited. Then, they got guys like Henry Dugat (he was kin to a BU assistant coach) and Curtis Jerrels (Texas didn't offer). Tweety Carter was a McD All-American, largely because he played Varsity since 7th grade and thus complied huge stats, but Baylor was the only major to offer him, because he was short and relatively unathletic (couldn't dunk). Kevin Rogers was a fallback option for Kansas, but didn't have an offer. BU beat out Georgia Tech for him, largely because he wanted to stay closer to home.

3. For every stud recruit Baylor has landed lately (P. Jones, Quincy Miller, Isaiah Austin), they have missed on many, many more. Darrell Arthur, Calvin Miles, John Wall, Blake Griffin, J'Covan Brown, lots of others. This year, we lost Chicken Knowles and Danuel House to UH. We wanted Phil Forte and Marcus Smart (both Okie State). We wanted J'Mychal Reese (but he's going to A&M, who hired his dad as an assistant). There's the perception that all of these studs are landing in our lap but for every one we got, we lost out on many, many more.

4. How do we keep getting good players to Waco? Our facilities are pretty good...brand new practice facility, NBA quality locker rooms, Ferrell Center is adequate. A bigger factor is that good players want to play with good players. Our best recruiters are guys on the team. Quincy Miller loved Quincy Acy and Perry Jones. Pierre Jackson was only offered by Creighton and BU. He visited BU and played a pickup game with some of the players and basically felt like he fit in here.

5. Our coaches work crazy [deleted] the recruiting trail. If there's an AAU tournament anywhere, they are there, often more than one coach. I went to a double header in Lewisville back in December: Prestonwood Academy vs. Arlington Grace Prep and Montrose Christian vs. Flower Mound Marcus. Drew and his whole staff were there. Bill Self and Danny Manning were there. I saw coaches from Alabama, TCU, and others. I did not see any SMU coaches and this was in their own backyard.

I know Drew previously hired John Wall's AAU coach in an attempt to land Wall. He didn't get him, but it led to us getting Quincy Miller and Deuce Bello. What is interesting is that there was no outcry when A&M hired Bryan Davis' uncle in order to get him or when they hired DeAndre Jordan's AAU coach and subsequently landed him. Does anybody think that it's a little unusual how Texas has a pipeline with Ro Russell at Findlay Prep with all the Canadian kids they've been getting? These kinds of things have been pretty common, but when Drew does it, it's an outrage.

[Alaric]

These kinds of things have been pretty common, but when Drew does it, it's an outrage.

No one wants an outsider in...especially one who uses a little negative recruiting, is willing to bend rules a little like the big boys and most importantly, doesn't pay proper homage to the kings

[DanFreibergerForHeisman]

Drew and his whole staff were there. Bill Self and Danny Manning were there. I saw coaches from Alabama, TCU, and others. I did not see any SMU coaches and this was in their own backyard.

Unfortunately, I believe this is true about a lot of the coaches at SMU in all sports.

[LA_Mustang]

Unfortunately, I believe this is true about a lot of the coaches at SMU in all sports.

Bingo. As we painfully found out, this was/is the case in football recruiting too. And from the outside it appears we don't even contact the upper tier local guys in hoops. Perfect example is Keith Frazier of Kimball, a top 15 talent in the 2013 class. He is holding offers from 20 schools including Baylor, TCU, A&M and even UNT but nothing from us. Check out how good this kid is today in the 4A championship game on FXSW.

Look at the top area kids nationally ranked in the 2013 class:
#4 - Julius Randle - Plano Prestonwood: 8 offers including Baylor, TCU and Texas
#13 - Keith Frazier - Kimball: 20 offers including Baylor, TCU, A&M and UNT
#28 - Matt Jones - DeSoto: Duke commit, had offers from Baylor, TCU, Texas and A&M
#71 - Karviar Shepherd - Arlington Grace Prep: top 3 schools showing interest are Baylor, TCU and UT
#75 - Jordan Mickey - Arlington Grace Prep: offer from UH and interest from Baylor, TCU, UT, A&M, TT
#123 - Kendal Harris - Richardson Berkner: offers from UH, A&M, TT and UNT, interest from UT, UTA

That's six players in the national 150 in our own backyard and not one even mentions SMU, no offers, no interest. That is embarrassing.

[SMUer]

The coaches don't "buy-in", shocking I say!

[mr. pony]

I'm drunk- someone answer this for me: how does Baylor consistently out recruit us? What are they selling? Waco blows, Dallas is awesome, the Crum Center has to (at least) be on par with anything they have, if not better. Plus they had a horrible scandal several years ago. What were they selling that we weren't??

Two words: Big 12
Baylor getting that invite over SMU was a crime.

[hoopmanx]

I'll take any Baylor dissing request by PM. I pretty much know where the bodies are buried. Sic'em, you should be first in line

[DanFreibergerForHeisman]

I'll take any Baylor dissing request by PM. I pretty much know where the bodies are buried. Sic'em, you should be first in line

I probably know about 5% of what you know - and just from what I know I can't believe they still have a basketball program (men's or women's).