At some schools, the standards are a bit higher

[CA Mustang]

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball ... est-gaudio

[moodymadmen]

"Gaudio was 61-31 at Wake Forest since he was hired in 2007 to replace Skip Prosser"
At some schools, the standards are a bit higher...well said. At some schools, 30 games over .500 (in the ACC!) get you canned while at some schools 30 games under .500 (with a cupcake schedule nonetheless) gets your contract extended multiple years...

[CalallenStang]

Not sure you can make that comparison. Look where Wake was before Prosser's death and Gaudio's hire. Look where SMU was after firing Tubbs. Two completely different situations.

Should Doh's contract have been extended? No. But it has been, so stop beating a dead horse.

[moodymadmen]

The Tubbs era is so far back in the rearview mirror that you need to stop beating that dead horse my friend. No pun intended.

[CalallenStang]

The Tubbs era is so far back in the rearview mirror that you need to stop beating that dead horse my friend. No pun intended.

It's relevant considering the rebuilding job that this was after Tubbs' departure. It's relevant as a defense to those who compare Doherty's era at SMU to Gaudio's era at Wake.

[moodymadmen]

No one is comparing a bad CUSA bball team to a good ACC team specifically. It has just been pointed out that some schools fire coaches that have gone to the big dance repeatedly and produced numerous NBA players while being 30 games over .500 while some schools who haven't gone to the big dance or NIT or produced any players that can play professionally at any level while having a losing record 4 years in a row extend the coaches contract. As a result, at some schools, the standards are obviously a bit higher...as the title of the threat indicates.

[CalallenStang]

No one is comparing a bad CUSA bball team to a good ACC team specifically.

At some schools, 30 games over .500 (in the ACC!) get you canned while at some schools 30 games under .500 (with a cupcake schedule nonetheless) gets your contract extended multiple years...

[PonyDoh]

Gaudio was a necessity hire during a delicate time. He helped keep their top 5 recruiting class together and rallied around Skip's passing. He was never a long term solution or even head coaching material. He'd already flailed at Loyola, Md. This wasn't about his win/loss record, this is about them putting the Prosser thing to bed, and getting on w/the business of big tim basketball.

I like moodymadman as a poster. He has strong opinions and voices them, which is what makes for fun debate. The issue I have is some of the comparisons etc. Gary Williams was almost fired last season in the ACC. Tech can't fire Hewitt even though that's all they want to do. It's a weird industry. Gaudio was never anything other then a torch holder for a few years at a historic ACC program. SMU was a teinted a program in the wild west that is CUSA. Those Wake teams were supposed to be damn good, just on who was in the system currently, or in Skip's pipeline. Doh inherited nothing, and hasn't been quick in rebuilding it. How would Doh have done had he inherited Prosser's team, w/that sort of talent? No telling, but interesting

[moodymadmen]

"Doh inherited nothing, and hasn't been quick in rebuilding it. How would Doh have done had he inherited Prosser's team, w/that sort of talent? No telling, but interesting"
PonyDoh, I think the answer to that question can be found in his tenure at UNC. Hopefully he has learned a lot since then, but he inherited a top 5 program in college hoops...the only jobs I can think of that are as/or more prestigious are Kansas, Kentucky, Duke, and UCLA. His time at UNC and fall from grace there speaks for itself so I think we know what would happen if he had those Wake teams. Going back to my post from yesterday, you are doomed as a head coach if you have nothing to hang your hat on. Sure compared to SMU he could get better recruits at Wake if that is his bread and butter, but what good is all that talent if you continually flip your "system", have a revolving door of assistants that either don't want to work for you or can't cut it, and have mediocre at best skills as a motivator/teacher/game planner?? No way could he match X's and O's and game plan with Coach K, both Williams, etc in the ACC today. And I think that was his problem at UNC, he was a young head coach at the time that experienced rapid success and as a result never had time to develop "his system," to develop in game Xs and 0s, teaching, and game planning aspect of the head coaching job...he was exposed at UNC in short. And unfortunately his past 4 years at SMU continue to expose him as a coach. SMU doesn't need a CEO, SMU needs a COACH. Unfortunately the powers that be at SMU are satisfied with the status quo while other schools are not and continue to upgrade.

[CA Mustang]

Look where SMU was after firing Tubbs.

It's relevant considering the rebuilding job that this was after Tubbs' departure.

If Tubbs' tenure is supposed to represent the low point, then what does it say that after FOUR YEARS Doherty still hasn't been able to achieve a better record? If that truly was the low point, then Doherty should have surpassed it and taken the school to a higher level. But instead, after four years all we have are plenty of excuses and losses.

[PonyDoh]

"Doh inherited nothing, and hasn't been quick in rebuilding it. How would Doh have done had he inherited Prosser's team, w/that sort of talent? No telling, but interesting"
PonyDoh, I think the answer to that question can be found in his tenure at UNC. Hopefully he has learned a lot since then, but he inherited a top 5 program in college hoops...the only jobs I can think of that are as/or more prestigious are Kansas, Kentucky, Duke, and UCLA. His time at UNC and fall from grace there speaks for itself so I think we know what would happen if he had those Wake teams. Going back to my post from yesterday, you are doomed as a head coach if you have nothing to hang your hat on. Sure compared to SMU he could get better recruits at Wake if that is his bread and butter, but what good is all that talent if you continually flip your "system", have a revolving door of assistants that either don't want to work for you or can't cut it, and have mediocre at best skills as a motivator/teacher/game planner?? No way could he match X's and O's and game plan with Coach K, both Williams, etc in the ACC today. And I think that was his problem at UNC, he was a young head coach at the time that experienced rapid success and as a result never had time to develop "his system," to develop in game Xs and 0s, teaching, and game planning aspect of the head coaching job...he was exposed at UNC in short. And unfortunately his past 4 years at SMU continue to expose him as a coach. SMU doesn't need a CEO, SMU needs a COACH. Unfortunately the powers that be at SMU are satisfied with the status quo while other schools are not and continue to upgrade.

The reasons you reference in this post have little to do w/why he was let go from UNC. Coaches flip systems all the time. Gary Williams is a flex guy that went to a drive & kick motion last year, and now back to flex again. Calipari didn't always run the DDM. There is no doubt that Orsini & Doh didn't really understand this job before all parties were on the hook. Tons of mistakes were made, but we're finally settling in. At this point, I'd rather it take us 6 years to get to 20+ wins, so long as we stay there for awhile.

[Cardinal Puff]

Agree with PonyDoh, let's see if we have it together now.

[CalallenStang]

Look where SMU was after firing Tubbs.

It's relevant considering the rebuilding job that this was after Tubbs' departure.

If Tubbs' tenure is supposed to represent the low point, then what does it say that after FOUR YEARS Doherty still hasn't been able to achieve a better record? If that truly was the low point, then Doherty should have surpassed it and taken the school to a higher level. But instead, after four years all we have are plenty of excuses and losses.

Please see RPI history: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=45254

[CalallenStang]

"Doh inherited nothing, and hasn't been quick in rebuilding it. How would Doh have done had he inherited Prosser's team, w/that sort of talent? No telling, but interesting"
PonyDoh, I think the answer to that question can be found in his tenure at UNC. Hopefully he has learned a lot since then, but he inherited a top 5 program in college hoops...the only jobs I can think of that are as/or more prestigious are Kansas, Kentucky, Duke, and UCLA. His time at UNC and fall from grace there speaks for itself so I think we know what would happen if he had those Wake teams. Going back to my post from yesterday, you are doomed as a head coach if you have nothing to hang your hat on. Sure compared to SMU he could get better recruits at Wake if that is his bread and butter, but what good is all that talent if you continually flip your "system", have a revolving door of assistants that either don't want to work for you or can't cut it, and have mediocre at best skills as a motivator/teacher/game planner?? No way could he match X's and O's and game plan with Coach K, both Williams, etc in the ACC today. And I think that was his problem at UNC, he was a young head coach at the time that experienced rapid success and as a result never had time to develop "his system," to develop in game Xs and 0s, teaching, and game planning aspect of the head coaching job...he was exposed at UNC in short. And unfortunately his past 4 years at SMU continue to expose him as a coach. SMU doesn't need a CEO, SMU needs a COACH. Unfortunately the powers that be at SMU are satisfied with the status quo while other schools are not and continue to upgrade.

The reasons you reference in this post have little to do w/why he was let go from UNC. Coaches flip systems all the time. Gary Williams is a flex guy that went to a drive & kick motion last year, and now back to flex again. Calipari didn't always run the DDM. There is no doubt that Orsini & Doh didn't really understand this job before all parties were on the hook. Tons of mistakes were made, but we're finally settling in. At this point, I'd rather it take us 6 years to get to 20+ wins, so long as we stay there for awhile.

Not to mention the fact that what Gaudio inherited from Prosser at Wake was much better than what Doh inherited from Guthridge at UNC. Guthridge had essentially quit recruiting. Why did Doh go 8-20 in his 2nd season? Two reasons. 1) Look at that roster...easily one of the least talented UNC teams in the past 30 years. 2) When you start losing at a program that isn't used to losing, the team gets discouraged and down on itself...more losses follow (see: Texas this year).

[moodymadmen]

If Guthridge left UNC in such bad, bad shape for poor Coach Doh then why did Doherty lead UNC to a #2 seed in the tourney and get national coach of the year his first season?? Then the Tar Heels failed to win 20 games or make the tourney his following 2 years. But you are right, its all Guthridges fault...if its not Tubbs, its Guthridge. Please. It has become a trend with Doh now...his first year is his best with someone elses players and then the wheels fall off. It took UNC 3 years to cut bait on Doh...we should have done it after year 4 but unfortunately we couldn't afford it.

"The reasons you reference in this post have little to do w/why he was let go from UNC."
Correct PonyDoh, I failed to mention how he completely alienated everyone at UNC and there was a player revolt. Off-court problems surfaced after Doherty's first season, when star sophomore Joseph Forte decided to turn pro, citing his inability to get along with Doherty as one of the reasons for leaving. Then 3 players transferred because they couldn't stand him. Finally, he was fired after poor results on the court and constant complaints from parents and players. It didn't help that he had pissed off the entire UNC basketball family from day 1 by failing to retain 3 popular assistant coaches. Best year was his first year, poor results follow, assistant coach upheavel, hmm...sound at all familiar?!?