FireMattDoherty.com

[CalallenStang]

"I made the statement regarding the way we are perceived in response to moodymadmen's assertion that it is somehow Doh's fault that we can't get any big-time players from Dallas."

Calallen, nothing is ever Doh's fault. Its not his fault we can't recruit Dallas, its not his fault we have 1 player from Texas in our rotation, its not his fault he perpetuates the SMU stigma, its not his fault we have yet to have a measley .500 season in 4 years on the job, its not his fault he is 47-73 at SMU and 26 games under .500, its not his fault his team is 2-10 in close games this year. Finally, I'm catching your drift.

Are you an idiot? I've blamed Doh several times on this board for things that were his fault - including that record (though I think that current trends are more important than his record in, say 2007-2008).

However, you're missing the challenges that he's facing in his job. Do you want me to spell it all out for you again? Is that what you want? I'll be happy to once again inform you of the situation, a situation which you seem to be unable or unwilling to grasp.

[moodymadmen]

PLEASE DON'T spell it out again. The less you talk the better. If I wanted to hear excuse driven spin control I would listen to a Doherty interview. At least PonyDoh can stand by his man while staying rational and without resorting to childish name-calling.

[CalallenStang]

PLEASE DON'T spell it out again. The less you talk the better. If I wanted to hear excuse driven spin control I would listen to a Doherty interview. At least PonyDoh can stand by his man while staying rational and without resorting to childish name-calling.

I'm trying to stay rational, but that's difficult when you refuse to rationalize as well.

Look, midway through the season I was the poster who made a post calling for Doherty to be fired at that moment. Since then, the direction of the program has warranted Doh to get another year.

Dispute away. Or don't. I could care less. It's ridiculous that in this entire discussion, where PonyDoh and I have told you the same exact things (in many different methods), you've yet to grasp it.

[CalallenStang]

Moodymadmen, who would you rather this program recruit - 3 and 4 star-level players from Europe, or 1 and 2 star-level players from Dallas?

[moodymadmen]

"Moodymadmen, who would you rather this program recruit - 3 and 4 star-level players from Europe, or 1 and 2 star-level players from Dallas?"
Are you referring to the Polish wonder known as Tomasz Kwiatkowski??
Look, I get and respect what you and PonyDoh are saying. Obviously there are significant challenges facing the SMU program. But I'm looking at the results and seeing that Doh isn't overcoming those challenges. I'm looking at trends and coming to the conclusion we will likely lose our final three games and finish at 14-17...the same as Year 1. I will be the first to admit I was excited about hiring a big name coach like Doh with Coach of the Year credentials. However, 14-17, 10-20, 9-21, and I'm guessing 14-17 again are proving we are just spinning our wheels. Not what I expect after 4 years and $2 million dollars. I understand the difficult nature of the SMU job but season after season its the same thing with Doh...they say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

[Nacho]

what challenges? we can recruit on a level playing field now. some of you are living about three years in the past.

[CalallenStang]

"Moodymadmen, who would you rather this program recruit - 3 and 4 star-level players from Europe, or 1 and 2 star-level players from Dallas?"
Are you referring to the Polish wonder known as Tomasz Kwiatkowski??
Look, I get and respect what you and PonyDoh are saying. Obviously there are significant challenges facing the SMU program. But I'm looking at the results and seeing that Doh isn't overcoming those challenges. I'm looking at trends and coming to the conclusion we will likely lose our final three games and finish at 14-17...the same as Year 1. I will be the first to admit I was excited about hiring a big name coach like Doh with Coach of the Year credentials. However, 14-17, 10-20, 9-21, and I'm guessing 14-17 again are proving we are just spinning our wheels. Not what I expect after 4 years and $2 million dollars. I understand the difficult nature of the SMU job but season after season its the same thing with Doh...they say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

LOL, no, it was a hypothetical. Tomasz would be nowhere near a 3 star level.

Like I said, what we have to overcome takes time. "Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results" would be firing a coach for not overcoming these obstacles quickly, starting over at square one with a different coach, and expecting them to turn this thing around in 2 years.

[CalallenStang]

what challenges? we can recruit on a level playing field now. some of you are living about three years in the past.

Check out the rest of this thread. We can recruit on a level playing field now...that's not what we're talking about.

[Balatro Diabolus Ex]

"Moodymadmen, who would you rather this program recruit - 3 and 4 star-level players from Europe, or 1 and 2 star-level players from Dallas?"
Are you referring to the Polish wonder known as Tomasz Kwiatkowski??
Look, I get and respect what you and PonyDoh are saying. Obviously there are significant challenges facing the SMU program. But I'm looking at the results and seeing that Doh isn't overcoming those challenges. I'm looking at trends and coming to the conclusion we will likely lose our final three games and finish at 14-17...the same as Year 1. I will be the first to admit I was excited about hiring a big name coach like Doh with Coach of the Year credentials. However, 14-17, 10-20, 9-21, and I'm guessing 14-17 again are proving we are just spinning our wheels. Not what I expect after 4 years and $2 million dollars. I understand the difficult nature of the SMU job but season after season its the same thing with Doh...they say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

LOL, no, it was a hypothetical. Tomasz would be nowhere near a 3 star level.
.

That's funny, because Tomasz is the only European player on our team who was rated 3 stars by both Rivals and Scout. Who else could you have been referring to, Myles Luttman? Show me some of these 3 star European guys, please? I'm not familiar with them.

[CalallenStang]

"Moodymadmen, who would you rather this program recruit - 3 and 4 star-level players from Europe, or 1 and 2 star-level players from Dallas?"
Are you referring to the Polish wonder known as Tomasz Kwiatkowski??
Look, I get and respect what you and PonyDoh are saying. Obviously there are significant challenges facing the SMU program. But I'm looking at the results and seeing that Doh isn't overcoming those challenges. I'm looking at trends and coming to the conclusion we will likely lose our final three games and finish at 14-17...the same as Year 1. I will be the first to admit I was excited about hiring a big name coach like Doh with Coach of the Year credentials. However, 14-17, 10-20, 9-21, and I'm guessing 14-17 again are proving we are just spinning our wheels. Not what I expect after 4 years and $2 million dollars. I understand the difficult nature of the SMU job but season after season its the same thing with Doh...they say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

LOL, no, it was a hypothetical. Tomasz would be nowhere near a 3 star level.
.

That's funny, because Tomasz is the only European player on our team who was rated 3 stars by both Rivals and Scout. Who else could you have been referring to, Myles Luttman? Show me some of these 3 star European guys, please? I'm not familiar with them.

Prof X, like I said, it was a hypothetical since moodymadmen seems to think that the only decent recruits play in DISD.

[moodymadmen]

June Jones accomplished something for the first time in 25 years, that hadn't been accomplished since the death penalty...to brush off such accomplishments is turning a blind eye to the new culture and expectations of the two big-time sports on campus. If you don't think the success of football team is affecting the expectations of basketball on the Hilltop then you are naive. Now that the powers that be have tasted success for the first time in a long time, they understandably want to taste more...and have seen what a successful football program and bowl win can do for the school in terms of:
1)Revenue
2)Positive PR/buzz/school spirit
3)Applications
4)Recruiting
Doherty isn't the third highest paid person on the Hilltop to produce subpar results, he makes half a mil per year in order to generate exactly what June Jones has generated: wins, excitement, post-season play, and revenue. It is year 4 and $2 million later that hasn't happened yet for Doh

Am I hearing an echo??

http://www.wfaa.com/sports/The-June-Eff ... 02522.html

by Joe Trahan / WFAA-TV

Posted on March 3, 2010 at 11:42 PM

Updated today at 9:24 PM
******

Since coming off the death penalty creating football success at SMU has been like trying to push the proverbial boulder up the hill (or hilltop in this case), but June Jones has managed to find traction.

And the mustangs Hawaii Bowl trip this past season has had a substantial effect on the university as a whole. “That was the only game,” said Jones, “that every high school player every college player every pro player was going to be watching that football game that night.”

That exposure has generated quite a buzz.

The university commissioned a study to study the impact of the Hawaii Bowl and the numbers are interesting. The publicity from the bowl trip - valued at more than 30 million dollars. and donations to the athletic program jumped 25 percent.

The mustang’s bowl trip will certainly help Jones with recruiting and the future of football, but its more than just about the gridiron - good football has a carry over effect here on campus. “Its good to have something good happening in an area that has been replete with a number of negatives over the past few years,” according to university president R. Gerald Turner.

The study also showing traffic on the schools web site was up 45 percent during the ponies bowl-run, and new student applications were up 35 percent from a year ago.

Particularly for Texas students,” said Turner, “since that's where most of the publicity was, it did help increase the number of Texas applicants.”

“We're an auxiliary here,” says athletic director Steve Orsini. "The core function on this campus is academics. Its important that we show the results of how we can help them.”

If Orsini is true to his word then the results don't bode well for Doh.

[CalallenStang]

moodymadmen - no one ever disputed that the NCAA tournament is the ultimate goal. Where you and I get cross-ways is when we discuss whether or not Doh can get it done. I see the signs of improvement that are very promising, whereas you see the record from the past three years and say that he'll never get it done.

All I'll say is this: no one fired June Jones after the 1-11 season and getting blown out in almost every game. I realize it's Doh's 4th year, but for the reasons that I've stated before and others that have been recounted on this board many times as well, we were much further away in basketball...but we're getting closer. Keep the faith.

[Stallion]

While the value of media attention may be overstated at 30 Million I've always thought this was one of the rfeal values of a Division 1A program. How much would it cost to pay for paid advertisements of SMU that we got for free from the Hawaii Bowl. What separates SMU from Stephen F. Austin or Austin College. No successful school could afford the amount of free advertisement from a successful athletic program.

[Balatro Diabolus Ex]

Why do you guys keep mentioning the Princeton offense?

cause we're running a version of it, w/a few motion concepts thrown in

No, we’re not.

I suppose calling it a “version” of the Princeton O is vague enough to make that claim, but the offense SMU runs doesn’t resemble what Pete Carrill used at Princeton in the key principles of his scheme.

Princetons offense literally revolved around it’s Center. Every possession began with 4-out and 1-in, or 2-3 High if you prefer that nomenclature. Usuallly, all 5 players were above the free throw line, the Center at the high post just above the elbow, and the other 4 players outside the three-point arc. The first pass was always into the high post, and the guards and wings would begin to make their cuts. The Center would read the defense and decide who to deliver the ball to. They began with all 5 players above the free throw line to keep as much open space along the baseline as possible, because the backdoor cut and give-and-go was the core of their scheme. The guards would be in constant motion, looking for a pass from the high post, either cutting to the basket or flaring back out to the arc. Most screens were set off the ball, not on the ball, to allow a player to cut backdoor. If the center began the possession at the low post, the first pass was still into him, from the wings, and first cutter went down the center of the lane, veering to the opposite corner.

SMU doesn’t do that. Most possessions begin with Derrick Williams dribbling to the right and going around a screen from the post player., then passing to a player on the wing, getting a return pass and dribbling back to the top off the key, then doing the same thing to the left side. In Princeton’s offense, the center reads the defense. In SMU’s offense, it’s Derrick. SMU almost never screens off the ball, they screen on the ball to set up dribble drive penetration. In the Princeton offense, the guards penetrate without the ball, and look for a pass as they cut.

Ask yourself 3 questions. How often do your guards post up on the low block and receive an entry pass from the high post? How often does Dia step outside the arc and fire a Three? How often does your offense begin a possession with everyone above the free throw line, and make it’s first pass into the high post? If the answer to any of these questions is “Never”, then you aren’t running Princetons offense.

Personally, I love the Princeton O. When its run by a group that knows how to execute it, it’s beautiful basketball. Air Force was the WAC/MWC cellar dweller for decades, until they hired Princeton assistant Joe Scott, and he turned them into the MWC champions (90-35 in four years, 2 NCAA tournaments and 1 NIT). Georgetown uses it successfully now in one of the countries strongest conferences. Something similar might be a good fit for SMU, but it isn’t what we’re doing now.

If you had said we were running Princeton’s defense, I might have agreed with you, because our matchup zone does strongly resemble what Pete Carrill ran. Offense, though, is painful to watch. It’s like watching grass die.

[PonyDoh]

Why do you guys keep mentioning the Princeton offense?

cause we're running a version of it, w/a few motion concepts thrown in

No, we’re not.

I suppose calling it a “version” of the Princeton O is vague enough to make that claim, but the offense SMU runs doesn’t resemble what Pete Carrill used at Princeton in the key principles of his scheme.

Princetons offense literally revolved around it’s Center. Every possession began with 4-out and 1-in, or 2-3 High if you prefer that nomenclature. Usuallly, all 5 players were above the free throw line, the Center at the high post just above the elbow, and the other 4 players outside the three-point arc. The first pass was always into the high post, and the guards and wings would begin to make their cuts. The Center would read the defense and decide who to deliver the ball to. They began with all 5 players above the free throw line to keep as much open space along the baseline as possible, because the backdoor cut and give-and-go was the core of their scheme. The guards would be in constant motion, looking for a pass from the high post, either cutting to the basket or flaring back out to the arc. Most screens were set off the ball, not on the ball, to allow a player to cut backdoor. If the center began the possession at the low post, the first pass was still into him, from the wings, and first cutter went down the center of the lane, veering to the opposite corner.

SMU doesn’t do that. Most possessions begin with Derrick Williams dribbling to the right and going around a screen from the post player., then passing to a player on the wing, getting a return pass and dribbling back to the top off the key, then doing the same thing to the left side. In Princeton’s offense, the center reads the defense. In SMU’s offense, it’s Derrick. SMU almost never screens off the ball, they screen on the ball to set up dribble drive penetration. In the Princeton offense, the guards penetrate without the ball, and look for a pass as they cut.

Ask yourself 3 questions. How often do your guards post up on the low block and receive an entry pass from the high post? How often does Dia step outside the arc and fire a Three? How often does your offense begin a possession with everyone above the free throw line, and make it’s first pass into the high post? If the answer to any of these questions is “Never”, then you aren’t running Princetons offense.

Personally, I love the Princeton O. When its run by a group that knows how to execute it, it’s beautiful basketball. Air Force was the WAC/MWC cellar dweller for decades, until they hired Princeton assistant Joe Scott, and he turned them into the MWC champions (90-35 in four years, 2 NCAA tournaments and 1 NIT). Georgetown uses it successfully now in one of the countries strongest conferences. Something similar might be a good fit for SMU, but it isn’t what we’re doing now.

If you had said we were running Princeton’s defense, I might have agreed with you, because our matchup zone does strongly resemble what Pete Carrill ran. Offense, though, is painful to watch. It’s like watching grass die.[/quote]

I've read Carrill's books too, and you are applying very strict principles to an offense that has proven to be very adaptive in the past 15 years. Very few run the Princeton in the way you've described, since Carrill at Princeton. It's been modified time and again, see Sacramento w/Divac and Webber, the Pistons w/Chauncey and Rasheed, all the way to JT3 at Princeton and then Georgetown. He fully admits he's not running the straight Princeton, for a variety of reasons. For one, it doesn't suit his talent level and would minimize both Chris Wright and Austin Freeman's ball skills.

In the case of this years Mustang team, the strength of the team is dribble drive penetration from DWill and what was supposed to be McCoy. First option is drive and finish, second is drive and kick, which is more along the lines of the DDM. If the ball goes high post first, wing cutters etc. Unfortunately, Dia's skill set doesn't make him a viable passer, either high low or backdoor. He also can't really run a pick'n'pop or roll, thus the constant reset.

This isn't some secret, even though Doh and crew call it the 'spread motion' or 'motion spread', the principles are roughly the same as a bastardized princeton, w/a touch of DDM. Gillen called it out a 1000 times in the broadcast vs East Carolina. The staff calls it a version of the princeton etc. As we get more passers and shooters, not to mention a high post capable of running the offense, it'll be closer to the princeton you've described, but the primary will still be creating off the bounce. As of now, it's very modified, but that doesn't mean it's not the princeton at it's core