rumor mill

[HixsontoLeVias]

..I've meet him, just another "tool with a checkbook".

[Mexmustang]

Look, Turner and company aren't going to go to this length to placate a grandson and an alum. Nor are they going to do this over the great "hamburger caper".

Max Williams is highly respected and is successful. He is known for having high standards and these rumors are inconsistant with that.

Max had helped Tubbs and the program when appropriate. Tubbs wanted to go way beyond that and begin a program that would have embarrassed the university far more than we are today.

Max was just one of a number of highly successful SMU backetball players during that era, including Bobby Folsom a very successful developer and past mayor. Unlike more recent athletes, they were big supporters of SMU. Many were turned off by Pye's attitude toward atletics and his program to destroy them at SMU and have never returned. Max didn't go to the press, he went to Copeland, who went outside the university. Isn't time to stop eating our young and bring these people back into the herd?

[friarwolf]

Hoop,

Who's the coach Max got fired at TCA-Addison?

Ronnie Morgan has an offer from Michigan. He was going to choose us over them? Not firing at you, just asking..............

[WildBillPony]

I don't have any inside scoop or anything, but if XTC is saying that to his knowledge up to this point that no major violation has occurred, that is good enough for me. XTC is usually up to the task of finding out what is going on. I will follow his lead on this one. He is accurate an know his stuff.

[Hoop Fan]

The only fact we know if that Max Williams turned himself and Tubbs in for an NCAA violation? Period. Do you know anything other than that?

First, you obviously feel that he should not have turned this in. Am I correct in saying so? To you, Max reporting the violation is a worse offense than Tubbs breaking the rules?

Second, you are correct about the burden of truth bit. But if you're going to go into the following theories:

1) Tubbs did not want to give Matt Williams a scholarship, and was forced to.
2) Matt Williams was a good kid, but is not anymore.
3) Matt Williams demanded playing time from Jimmy Tubbs.
4) Matt Williams ran crying to granpa.
5) Max made a successful effort to get Jimmy Tubbs fired because he wasn't playing his grandson in his freshman season before he got hurt.
6) Matt Williams encouraged Bamba and Morris not to play hard.

You know one fact, yet decided to fill in all the details yourself. Sorry, but someone has to call BS on that.

Noonan, you are referring to a DIFFERENT post. I did not refer to those things as facts. Read it again where I stated the facts. You're not correct in how you are quoting me at all. My first post stated what I had heard as rumor. I think i clearly labeled that as such with the title of my thread being "Rumor Mill".

[Danny Noonan]

The only fact we know if that Max Williams turned himself and Tubbs in for an NCAA violation? Period. Do you know anything other than that?

First, you obviously feel that he should not have turned this in. Am I correct in saying so? To you, Max reporting the violation is a worse offense than Tubbs breaking the rules?

Second, you are correct about the burden of truth bit. But if you're going to go into the following theories:

1) Tubbs did not want to give Matt Williams a scholarship, and was forced to.
2) Matt Williams was a good kid, but is not anymore.
3) Matt Williams demanded playing time from Jimmy Tubbs.
4) Matt Williams ran crying to granpa.
5) Max made a successful effort to get Jimmy Tubbs fired because he wasn't playing his grandson in his freshman season before he got hurt.
6) Matt Williams encouraged Bamba and Morris not to play hard.

You know one fact, yet decided to fill in all the details yourself. Sorry, but someone has to call BS on that.

Noonan, you are referring to a DIFFERENT post. I dit not refer those things as facts. Read it again where I stated the facts. You're not correct in how you are quoting me at all.

You inferred those things in the first post on this thread. And I specifically called them your theories. Never said you presented them as facts. But you sure as hell said them.

[Hoop Fan]

uh, who is denying saying them? Those points were speculation and quite different than saying i portrayed them as fact. In fact, I said my source was only 2nd hand from the outset.

Can we agree that SMU has botched the handling and communication on this? Tubbs deserves better and we deserve better.

[Kappas Are Yummy]

all SMU Coaches post-DP have had a buy-out clause and there is also a secrecy clause generally included in the buy-out so the coaches won't go blabing about what a piss-poor Model they have had to work under.

EXACTLY!

[Danny Noonan]

uh, who is denying saying them? Those points were speculation and quite different than saying i portrayed them as fact. In fact, I said my source was only 2nd hand from the outset.

Can we agree that SMU has botched the handling and communication on this? Tubbs deserves better and we deserve better.

And I never said you portrayed them as fact. I said these are your THEORIES: 1, 2, 3, 4.

Botched it yes. If Tubbs committed multilpe violations, which common sense and Copeland press release are leaning towards, no he doesn't deserve better.

[Hoop Fan]

heres the problem, they are still alleged. No proof. He said, she said. And the guy alleging has motives and is not exactly disinterested. I have heard from different people at different times that early on that matt williams didnt understand why he wasnt getting playing time. If SMU is so confident in these major allegations, why was Tubbs fired without cause?

[Danny Noonan]

We don't know ther isn't proof. Tubbs could've admitted to them, for all we know. The independent investigators obviously found something. These things never come out immediately.

[The XtC]

[quote="friarwolf"]Hoop,

Who's the coach Max got fired at TCA-Addison?

Ronnie Morgan has an offer from Michigan. He was going to choose us over them? Not firing at you, just asking..............[/quote]

Yeah, apparently he was. I'd heard earlier in the week that he was ready to commit. Needless to say, this also drowns any shot we might have had at his brother. The Dunbar kid Hoop Fan is referring to is Chris Roberts, he hasnt committed but was suppose to visit this weekend with a Eugene Spetz (spelling?) a junior college kid. Impossible to tell how this will affect the 2 juniors who committed early, I imagine that will all depend on the new coach.

Friar, why dont you ask Ronnie Morgan, if/when you see him next? Thats really the only way to get a real straight answer. I'm sincere about this, I'd really like to know what his answer was. Oh, and all those other details that you said you wont post on the board, but you'd tell us over a beer..... I'll be at the Spring game on Saturday, and I'll have a 6-pack smuggled in, in a paper sack. If you really are willing to sit down and talk, I'll tell you how to get in touch with me.

[Hoop Fan]

We don't know ther isn't proof. Tubbs could've admitted to them, for all we know. The independent investigators obviously found something. These things never come out immediately.

I guess its possible, but there are too many credible people saying nothing major exists. If SMU has found it, and proven it, they need to announce it and report it to the NCAA immediately. That cannot be withheld. So lets have it, wheres the beef? Bring it and lets deal with it. The damage is done.

[The XtC]

[quote="Danny Noonan"]We don't know ther isn't proof. \[/quote]

Actually, yes we do. If there was proof of anything, Tubbs could be fired "With Cause" and sent off without paying him a dime. Instead, SMU is paying out the full term of his contract, indicating that there was no cause showable. Same as Cavan, Shumate, Dement, and Rossley.

[Ikus]

Or it could mean that there is something there and SMU doesn't want to (as someone said) "air its dirty laundry." I wish the Ponies had won more games, and so do the rest of the fans on this site. But let's remember we're all here because of just that -- we're fans of SMU, first and foremost. I, for one, wish Coach Tubbs well in whatever he does.

As for the comment that SMU is "set back 10 years" .... that can't be determined until his replacement is named. If the new coach comes in and dazzles the local coaches, then this will be remembered as an incident that caused SMU some embarrassment and emotional reaction and little more. But until a replacement is put in place, then an accurate assessment of this whole scenario can not be formulated.