FireMattDoherty.com

[RGV Pony]

i too am a fan of the bobs..er, the Reggies

[moodymadmen]

As Bill Parcells famously said "you are what you are." And what we are is 46-72 under Doherty. You can try to spin that all you like but the results arent lying to us, we are what we are. And I'm not sold that Doherty has "found the system" or "recruits for the system" and even if he has why would I put my faith in a coach that needs 4 years to discover such freakin BASIC coaching principles. Think about that...4 years, thats a really long time to find direction. It says a lot about a coach with 3 previous college jobs that he even needs to "find a system" to begin with...i guarantee the next coach we hire comes with a system and philosophy already in place...because thats what the good/successful coaches do. And even if we win another game or two we are still running in place, with the exact same results we received 4 years ago in his first season. So I don't want to hear talk about "progress", when you finish with 9 and 10 wins there is nowhere to go put up really so its fools gold. I don't agree with everything Doherty does or says but he is a good man, but at the end of the day he is what he is as a coach...mediocre to subpar. He had one nice season with ND, had a fall from grace and a losing record in the ACC with North Carolina, 2 games above .500 in one season at Florida Atlantic, and now 26 games under .500 at SMU...add it all up and its a career coaching record of 136-143 over 9 years. For some perspective, Mike Dement was 138-120 over 9 years at SMU...and 57-57 after 4 years.

[Hoop Fan]

ouch maddog, you are bringing the pain. I've made this comparison with Dement before. No matter what you think of the talent level Doh inherited, it was no worse than the situation Dement inherited. Dement was starting over from scratch bigtime and did MUCH better than Doh, and thats not even to suggest the Dement days were all that great. And I think would agree that top to bottom, the WAC was probably a better basketball league as a whole than CUSA has been lately.

[EastStang]

Two months ago, I was in the fire Doherty camp. But all along I said, if we have a .500 season as well as .500 in conference he should be retained. But in my book, he doesn't get points for close, because we lost some games to some not so good teams. Now he has to beat some good teams to make up for that. If he doesn't make .500 this year, then he hasn't earned a renewal in my book. If for monetary reasons, he gets to ride out next year, fine.

[PoconoPony]

Two months ago, I was in the fire Doherty camp. But all along I said, if we have a .500 season as well as .500 in conference he should be retained. But in my book, he doesn't get points for close, because we lost some games to some not so good teams. Now he has to beat some good teams to make up for that. If he doesn't make .500 this year, then he hasn't earned a renewal in my book. If for monetary reasons, he gets to ride out next year, fine.

Doh gets his 5 years based on $$$$$$ considerations alone as the Athletic Department financially cannot afford to fired him and afford the price of a new coach. He also has some reasonably influential alums and financial supporters still on his side and sympathetic to the issues. PonyDoh is high on his recruits for 2010; however, I expressed back in November after LOIs were signed that I was very skeptical that that we would see any of these 3 kids actually make it on campus. Obviously, I hope I am wrong and that this is a strong class that bails out the program. I am still not convinced Doh has the people skills to motivate, inspire, instill confidence, gain leadership respect.....etc. for any significant improvement or development of the program. He simply lacks the "it" factor to be other than very average.

[PonyDoh]

As Bill Parcells famously said "you are what you are." And what we are is 46-72 under Doherty. You can try to spin that all you like but the results arent lying to us, we are what we are. And I'm not sold that Doherty has "found the system" or "recruits for the system" and even if he has why would I put my faith in a coach that needs 4 years to discover such freakin BASIC coaching principles. Think about that...4 years, thats a really long time to find direction. It says a lot about a coach with 3 previous college jobs that he even needs to "find a system" to begin with...i guarantee the next coach we hire comes with a system and philosophy already in place...because thats what the good/successful coaches do. And even if we win another game or two we are still running in place, with the exact same results we received 4 years ago in his first season. So I don't want to hear talk about "progress", when you finish with 9 and 10 wins there is nowhere to go put up really so its fools gold. I don't agree with everything Doherty does or says but he is a good man, but at the end of the day he is what he is as a coach...mediocre to subpar. He had one nice season with ND, had a fall from grace and a losing record in the ACC with North Carolina, 2 games above .500 in one season at Florida Atlantic, and now 26 games under .500 at SMU...add it all up and its a career coaching record of 136-143 over 9 years. For some perspective, Mike Dement was 138-120 over 9 years at SMU...and 57-57 after 4 years.

So are you denying that the princeton O and 2-3 matchup zone are legit systems/philosophies? Do you not think they will work in CUSA, home of undisciplined hoops? Also, are you stating that Pats/Vilde/Smith aren't fits for this system? 3 kids that shoot & pass better then most on our roster. 2 of them would be some of our best rebounders this year, much less next.

Beyond that, Doh came w/a system, same one he's always run. Motion O, man D, secondary break etc. Unfortunately, that is predicated on having superior run/jump athletes, something we haven't had at SMU since paying. It's about time someone changed the model to make sense w/regards to the school & program. We aren't going to out-athlete diploma mills w/any regularity. We can't go after Memphis next year, by trying to beat the #1 recruiting class in the nation, playing uptempo. It makes no sense in what is traditionally a one-bid league. SMU, even in the 80s, didn't have the firepower to man up w/Joe Jackson, Will Barton, Jelan Kendrick and Elliott Williams.

Also, you can't skew the truth about his stops at FAU and Notre Dame just to suit your point. Those were successful stops and to say otherwise is just agenda-driven drivel. I'm not a Doh fan-boi by any means, but this program has some traction, systems in place, and solid recruits in the pipeline. The '11 class looks like a potential Texas breakthrough as well. We're in the mix for tons of top 25 Texas kids.

[moodymadmen]

The Princeton O and matchup zone are fine...if they lead to wins but all I see is the 4th sub .500 record on the horizon in 4 years. I'm not knocking the current system as much as I am the fact you are hailing these things as saviors when all it has led to is the same exact results he achieved in year 1 (with another guys players and a previous system which was deemed a failure). I'm knocking the fact that he had to change his system due to his complete inability to recruit the type of athletes you say he needed to implement that system. And to say SMU hasn't had these type of athletes in the past is a figment of your imagination...Dement recruited 2 NBA players in Sasser and Ross and also had Willie Davis who was far superior athletically to anyone Doh has brought in. I just think its funny that we moved on from Dement and Tubbs to an allegedly big-time, big-name coach yet Doh is 26 games under .500 after 4 years while Dement was at .500 with an 18-10 season already under his belt...in a much, much tougher conference. CUSA is cushy compared to the WAC teams Dement had to face back then...Fresno State was loaded with Tark, Utah with Van Horn/Doleac/Andre Miller, New Mexico with Kenny Thomas, Hawaii with Anthony Carter, UNLV with Marion, TCU with Nailon, etc. I'm not a Dement homer nor a Doh basher, I'm just a realist and the results/records speak for themselves. And I'm not skewing the truths about his stops at FAU or ND by any means...I said he had a nice season at ND and was 2 games over .500 at FAU. That he went 8-20 one season at UNC and finished his career with a losing record in ACC play is not "agenda-driven drivel"...its the facts jack. So if you consider another sub .500 season "traction" then more power to you, I just see SMU spinning their wheels with a coach that is 26 games under .500 on the Hilltop.

[Treadway21]

Moodymadmen,

With all due respect, use paragraphs. Paragraphs will make long posts easier to read and digest. And please take this as constructive criticism not a cheap shot.

[mustangxc]

The Princeton O and matchup zone are fine...if they lead to wins but all I see is the 4th sub .500 record on the horizon in 4 years. I'm not knocking the current system as much as I am the fact you are hailing these things as saviors when all it has led to is the same exact results he achieved in year 1 (with another guys players and a previous system which was deemed a failure). I'm knocking the fact that he had to change his system due to his complete inability to recruit the type of athletes you say he needed to implement that system. And to say SMU hasn't had these type of athletes in the past is a figment of your imagination...Dement recruited 2 NBA players in Sasser and Ross and also had Willie Davis who was far superior athletically to anyone Doh has brought in. I just think its funny that we moved on from Dement and Tubbs to an allegedly big-time, big-name coach yet Doh is 26 games under .500 after 4 years while Dement was at .500 with an 18-10 season already under his belt...in a much, much tougher conference. CUSA is cushy compared to the WAC teams Dement had to face back then...Fresno State was loaded with Tark, Utah with Van Horn/Doleac/Andre Miller, New Mexico with Kenny Thomas, Hawaii with Anthony Carter, UNLV with Marion, TCU with Nailon, etc. I'm not a Dement homer nor a Doh basher, I'm just a realist and the results/records speak for themselves. And I'm not skewing the truths about his stops at FAU or ND by any means...I said he had a nice season at ND and was 2 games over .500 at FAU. That he went 8-20 one season at UNC and finished his career with a losing record in ACC play is not "agenda-driven drivel"...its the facts jack. So if you consider another sub .500 season "traction" then more power to you, I just see SMU spinning their wheels with a coach that is 26 games under .500 on the Hilltop.

You can't leave out the fact that Bill Guthridge failed to recruit his 3 season as head coach, leaving him with a talented senior class his first season where he went on to become national coach of the year. However, those failed recruiting years under Guthridge are the biggest reason for his lack of success the following 2 seasons. Doherty is the man responsible for restocking the roster at UNC which led to their national championship. The reason he was fired was because of the player revolt.

Similar circumstances at SMU. Dement, brought in Bryan Hopkins to add to the Simpson, Castro, Isham team, along with Rack, but didn't bring in anyone else after that. He lost control of the team in 2003-04 after a decent non-conference season that included the road win at top 25 Purdue.
That was a fairly talented team. Nonetheless he was canned and we brought in Tubbs. To me that was the biggest mistake ever because either you give a coach a leash or don't even bother. While Tubbs was an awesome assistant, he just didn't fit the part of HC. Nonetheless, knowing he didn't have time to make things happen he didn't do much in terms of recruiting, especially freshmen. Then you fire him after 2 seasons and hence we had 2 lost recruiting classes added to the already diminished recruiting success.

Doherty coached the last semi-decent roster his first season with Ike, Pearson, Rack, Roberts, and Killen, but there really wasn't anyone behind him. To me anyone coaching at SMU the 2007/08 and 2008/09 would have had a disastrous record much like Doherty. If you want to blame anyone for the lack of success, blame Copeland for not getting it right with Tubbs. I am not bashing Tubbs because he did what he could given the circumstances surrounding his hire, ie lack of support from the administration. However, why would you hire a black coach only to spit in his face? SMU already has a sensitive reputation regarding minorities. Add to that the fact that SMU has never been a basketball power and we are in a state where college hoops is an afterthought it is no wonder why we are not further along.

I do see light at the end of the tunnel and appreciate Doherty's honesty as he openly said from the beginning that it would take 5-6 seasons to turn things around. Doherty was accustomed to picking and choosing as he desired, but SMU does not have that luxury. While it would be nice to be able to just work hard and get it done, SMU is a tricky job and requires a special strategy. Hence the Princeton offense. I for one think that we need to stay the course or else we will be in a perpetual tailspin. I do think that if we don't keep improving the rest of the year and next year, then a change would be sensible, but we are in the situation we are in due to impatience and improper planning. Let's not make that mistake again.

[Balatro Diabolus Ex]

Why do you guys keep mentioning the Princeton offense?

[PonyDoh]

Why do you guys keep mentioning the Princeton offense?

cause we're running a version of it, w/a few motion concepts thrown in

[PonyDoh]

The Princeton O and matchup zone are fine...if they lead to wins but all I see is the 4th sub .500 record on the horizon in 4 years. I'm not knocking the current system as much as I am the fact you are hailing these things as saviors when all it has led to is the same exact results he achieved in year 1 (with another guys players and a previous system which was deemed a failure). I'm knocking the fact that he had to change his system due to his complete inability to recruit the type of athletes you say he needed to implement that system. And to say SMU hasn't had these type of athletes in the past is a figment of your imagination...Dement recruited 2 NBA players in Sasser and Ross and also had Willie Davis who was far superior athletically to anyone Doh has brought in. I just think its funny that we moved on from Dement and Tubbs to an allegedly big-time, big-name coach yet Doh is 26 games under .500 after 4 years while Dement was at .500 with an 18-10 season already under his belt...in a much, much tougher conference. CUSA is cushy compared to the WAC teams Dement had to face back then...Fresno State was loaded with Tark, Utah with Van Horn/Doleac/Andre Miller, New Mexico with Kenny Thomas, Hawaii with Anthony Carter, UNLV with Marion, TCU with Nailon, etc. I'm not a Dement homer nor a Doh basher, I'm just a realist and the results/records speak for themselves. And I'm not skewing the truths about his stops at FAU or ND by any means...I said he had a nice season at ND and was 2 games over .500 at FAU. That he went 8-20 one season at UNC and finished his career with a losing record in ACC play is not "agenda-driven drivel"...its the facts jack. So if you consider another sub .500 season "traction" then more power to you, I just see SMU spinning their wheels with a coach that is 26 games under .500 on the Hilltop.

I agree that we should have had a 'make sense' system in place earlier. I agree that we failed to recruit the type of athletes to make his first system effective. Those are on Doh and nobody is going to say otherwise. I just don't care what happened 3 years ago b/c it doesn't mean anything w/regards to tomorrow. Right now, we're showing improvement both on the court and trail. The systems make sense for CUSA and can be effective w/the right personnel. Mistakes were made, big deal. SMU is an incredibly difficult job from an industry perspective and that doesn't just change w/a new hire.

Did you ever think the 16 team WAC was easier to recruit to b/c it was a better league w/marquee programs that have had true national success. Also, Sasser had a cup of coffee in the league, nothing more. Willie Davis, God Bless him, could dunk and grab a few boards. Great athlete, but lets not get carried away. Given the disparity in tempo and pace, he really was no better then Dia.

And yes, you are skewing the facts about his stops at Notre Dame and FAU. Here's what you neglected to say about Doh at FAU....'in Doherty's one year there, FAU compiled its best-ever conference record (14-6) and only its third season winning record in school history' as stated by wiki. The 8-20 at UNC was abysmal, but really not much worse then we are seeing from HOF Roy this year, w/far more talent and upper class support. Everyone rebuilds at some point. The jobs he did at both ND and FAU enabled him to move up the coaching ladder, so it's not like they were considered average accomplishments, much less failures.

We should have had traction and a sensible plan sooner, but now that we have one, why [deleted] the progress. We've had this debate before, and I've yet to see many credible names mentioned in a search capacity that are a given to be a upgrade. The people that want BCG are the same ones that think Kenny Turner makes sense for SMU. Maybe Northern Iowa's coach. What about WKU's coach, even though he's had a very sub-par year? Paul Hewitt if he gets canned? Great recruiter, possibly the worst bench coach in the last 30 years of ACC hoops. Pelphrey? Wheels are off at Arkansas. Maybe a profile assistant. Do we know they can X & O, manage a program etc? No. Give me viable alternatives that are definitely better options and I'll entertain the notion. Until then, enjoy the fact that we are getting better and have a plan.

[moodymadmen]

I will stand corrected in one thing I said, Doherty has not lost the team. After the win last night its obvious to see these kids are playing hard and I'm proud of them for continuing to fight. I thought the wheels would fall off after the UAB game.
So call me crazy, but if the goal is to be "top 25 in everything we do" I just can't see Doherty leading us there. He took 4 years to find the system that has propelled us to .500 ball at this point, so I'm not optimistic. For us to be top 25, Doherty has to do 3 things that haven't been accomplished yet during his tenure: win, recruit (specifically Dallas), and fill the stands/create excitement about the program. He has failed to have a winning season thus far, he has failed to recruit our fertile backyard, and Moody is beyond depressing. The only positive buzz that has been created in my opinion has been the Crum Center and I will give him major props for that ... but very little on the basketball court has created excitement on the Hilltop or in Dallas in general. "Traction" is nice, but results in the 3 above categories are even better and in 4 years I just haven't witnessed anything to make me believe Doh can make us a top 25 program.
June Jones showed that he could get in done in a year and a half in football...Jones has won, done a great job on the recruiting trail, and provided excitement in Ford and with the bowl win. So it CAN be done and it should be much easier to turn the corner in basketball...yet we are no better off now then we were with Dement or Tubbs unfortunately.

[mustangxc]

Keep in mind it took Scott Drew 5 seasons to break through and he definitely had a major breakthrough season. We were really close in many of our losses including TCU, UAB, Charleston, at Southern Miss, at Texas State, South Florida, at UTEP, at Houston. The way we are playing now, I would think we easily beat TCU, Charleston, Texas State, UAB, and squeeze out 1 or 2 others. That would have us on track for a 20+ win season and post-season play. Not making excuses as all those games were losses, just saying that we are making progress and it is reasonable to expect 20+ wins next season.

2003–2004 Baylor 8-21 3-13 11th —
2004–2005 Baylor 9-19 1-15 12th —
2005–2006 Baylor 4-13 4-12 12th —
2006–2007 Baylor 15-16 4-12 11th —
2007–2008 Baylor 21-11 9-7 T–4th NCAA First Round
2008–2009 Baylor 24-15 5-11 9th NIT Runner-up
2009–2010 Baylor 21-6 8-5

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Drew

[Junior]

calallen, how are you 25 feet from the Hillcrest track? You live in a storage shed or something?

Did we hire Mike Leach as an assistant?