The SMU Washington Generals Mustangs

by **Monkeystang** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:27 pm

We currently do not have a presence in the paint. That's why we are always throwing up 3 pointers.

by **hoopmanx** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:29 pm

LA_Mustang wrote:Sitting Cunningham is baffling. My biggest complaint of Doherty has been his substitution patterns. They've never made sense. Some things don't change.

I was real impressed with Smith, huge upside with him. Cotton was disappointing, he couldn't throw it in the ocean. We are young and hoopmanx, you're right. We have nice upgrade in talent. I'm just hoping Doherty, or someone gets the most out of it.

IF we stuck to our horses, we'd look even more talented. This Frog over Manuel stuff, not to mention the benching of Vilde, is career suicide for Doh.

IF Manuel isn't the best option at PG, I'm ok w/that, just so long as Doh loses his job. Can't have it both ways, and in this case, IF Manuel isn't the high major PG this team needs, where is that kid? Frog was/is a stop gap w/a low ceiling, which we've all known since the first minute we saw him. W/that as a given, where is our high major PG? I'd like to think it's Manuel, but IF the staff doesn't think so, they've failed the program by not identifying, recruiting, and landing an elite PG.

by **Treadway21** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:29 pm

Monkeystang wrote:I cannot understand the decisions made by Doh. What in the world was he thinking letting JFROG take the ball in the last two overtimes. Robert, Williams or Giles should of had the ball. No offense to JFROG but he was not the right man for the job.

Agree - Jfrog is not the answer late in the game; too many crucial turnovers and mistakes. Good tough player, but should not be overexposed.

Get the ball to Nykundi.

by **Monkeystang** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:42 pm

Any other option would of been better than JFROG going up agaisnt a guy who probably had 6inches on him. Cunninham at a low post would of been good as well as Rob who is our HIGH scorer. Give the ball to the guy with the most points. There is a reason why someone with the most points should have the ball in a critical moment like that. Obviously he can score. Shawn Williams also had many penetrations to the hoop last night that resulted in a basket. I think he should of been the guy with the ball.

by **hoopmanx** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:44 pm

Travis Bickle wrote:
LA_Mustang wrote:Sitting Cunningham is baffling. My biggest complaint of Doherty has been his substitution patterns. They've never made sense. Some things don't change.

I was real impressed with Smith, huge upside with him. Cotton was disappointing, he couldn't throw it in the ocean. We are young and hoopmanx, you're right. We have nice upgrade in talent. I'm just hoping Doherty, or someone gets the most out of it.

LA Mustang - Hope we can agree to disagree. Last year's team won 20 with no exceptional talent with the exception of Papa. We don't have a TALENT like him. Do we have basketball players or talent Athletic looking guys who are not that basketball savvy plus they are fragile, young, and not mentally tough. Heck, Rob N made himself a player through hours and hours of PROPER practice shooting the basketball. Not knocking him but would he be on the floor if he couldn't shoot? I see no POST presence on a consistent basis. I mean PAPA DEMANDED the basketball and would get ticked off and rightfully so if they didn't pass it to him. He gave a TARGET. Find me a presence in the paint. Who is he?

Travis, obviously Papa was a monster for us last year, but let's keep things in perspective. Last years team benefited from an intentionally jacked up schedule, designed to get the Mustangs 20 plus wins. Had Smith/Vilde been eligible last year, as was widely anticipated by the staff, we'd have been that much more successful. As much as I enjoyed that team, and loved the chemistry, it was smoke & mirrors. The guy mostly responsible for last years schedule, called it the 20 win schedule in like April/May of 2010, prior to McCoy even leaving.

Now, we could go to Leslee down low, even Big Shot Rob & Shawne, far more than we do. Same w/Cannen & vilde in certain situations. On the whole, we lack that one dominant guy, but the big rotation is night and day. The biggest issue is that no one attacks off the bounce, so we never get numbers in the half court.

Leslee is going to be a beast out of the high post

by **GiddyUp** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:01 pm

Where does Bernardi and Russell fit in next year? Minutes are going to be limited.

by **RGV Pony** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:03 pm

Nyuk gone clink gone Rob gone jfrog end of bench

Russell w/ Manuel backing up
Cotton
Williams
Jones
Smith
Cunningham
Vilde

That would be my top 8 next year

by **hoopmanx** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:03 pm

Monkeystang wrote:Any other option would of been better than JFROG going up agaisnt a guy who probably had 6inches on him. Cunninham at a low post would of been good as well as Rob who is our HIGH scorer. Give the ball to the guy with the most points. There is a reason why someone with the most points should have the ball in a critical moment like that. Obviously he can score. Shawn Williams also had many penetrations to the hoop last night that resulted in a basket. I think he should of been the guy with the ball.

Every game where we've trailed by double digits, we've ditched the princeton and gone w/a high ball screen dribble/drive motion, mostly executed by Manuel. The key is creating numbers in the half court, so set the screen and let the PG rub his man off it. Hopefully he gets his shoulders even, has his defender on his hip. At that point, the defense has to stop the ball, so they slide. Our PG just has to find the open shooter or finish. Nobody respects Frog off the bounce, so guess what? The perimeter D doesn't double down, cause the trees can just swat Frog. All of the sudden, Frog has no outlets on the perimeter, and can only try to finish. At his size, he has to lay it high on the glass, so it bounces around too much, if it gets there. Just off of shear size, they'd have to collapse on Manuel after rubbing off the screen. It was the story of the FGC and ORU games. It was also how we got Rob easy looks, after he'd been shooting contested jumpers all games.

by **RGV Pony** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:06 pm

hoopmanx wrote:
Monkeystang wrote:Any other option would of been better than JFROG going up agaisnt a guy who probably had 6inches on him. Cunninham at a low post would of been good as well as Rob who is our HIGH scorer. Give the ball to the guy with the most points. There is a reason why someone with the most points should have the ball in a critical moment like that. Obviously he can score. Shawn Williams also had many penetrations to the hoop last night that resulted in a basket. I think he should of been the guy with the ball.

Every game where we've trailed by double digits, we've ditched the princeton and gone w/a high ball screen dribble/drive motion, mostly executed by Manuel. The key is creating numbers in the half court, so set the screen and let the PG rub his man off it. Hopefully he gets his shoulders even, has his defender on his hip. At that point, the defense has to stop the ball, so they slide. Our PG just has to find the open shooter or finish. Nobody respects Frog off the bounce, so guess what? The perimeter D doesn't double down, cause the trees can just swat Frog. All of the sudden, Frog has no outlets on the perimeter, and can only try to finish. At his size, he has to lay it high on the glass, so it bounces around too much, if it gets there. Just off of shear size, they'd have to collapse on Manuel after rubbing off the screen. It was the story of the FGC and ORU games. It was also how we got Rob easy looks, after he'd been shooting contested jumpers all games.

And that's exactly what happened at the end of OT, even narrated by frog in the postgame interview

by **hoopmanx** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:12 pm

Travis Bickle wrote:We beat Southern Mississippi, Memphis, Oral Roberts University, Jacksonville, and Northern Iowa on the road. The "made for 20 wins" might have helped us with a weak schedule early and gaining confidence. Even without the two players you mentioned, we were 6 possessions away last year from winning 24 games.

Max, no doubt you know your hoops but you came at me with 5 players on that "get the winning basket" play so we are all confused. Who is it? I still go with big shot Rob at this point.

Good point you made - we don't have a "blow by" guy who can take it to second gear and just "get around" a guy to even get the ball into the post. Watched the game on the tube last night but observations were OSU guards who went like 14-29 were "basketball IQ smart" and not overwhelming athletic. They had good instincts and "made shots" when they absolutely had to knock them down. Again even though it drove us nuts watching the offense/defense substitutions patterns late in the game last year maybe that would have been the answer last night

I run a high ball screen, which is our secondary O. It's not about getting one guy a shot, it's about putting capable shooters all over the floor, and finding the open one. All the guys I mentioned are capable in the post to some degree. You can't count on having a Dia, cause he's the first decent big we're had since freakin Poerner. Instead, play to your strengths, and get a perimeter shooter open for a legit look

by **hoopmanx** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:26 pm

RGV Pony wrote:
hoopmanx wrote:
Monkeystang wrote:Any other option would of been better than JFROG going up agaisnt a guy who probably had 6inches on him. Cunninham at a low post would of been good as well as Rob who is our HIGH scorer. Give the ball to the guy with the most points. There is a reason why someone with the most points should have the ball in a critical moment like that. Obviously he can score. Shawn Williams also had many penetrations to the hoop last night that resulted in a basket. I think he should of been the guy with the ball.

Every game where we've trailed by double digits, we've ditched the princeton and gone w/a high ball screen dribble/drive motion, mostly executed by Manuel. The key is creating numbers in the half court, so set the screen and let the PG rub his man off it. Hopefully he gets his shoulders even, has his defender on his hip. At that point, the defense has to stop the ball, so they slide. Our PG just has to find the open shooter or finish. Nobody respects Frog off the bounce, so guess what? The perimeter D doesn't double down, cause the trees can just swat Frog. All of the sudden, Frog has no outlets on the perimeter, and can only try to finish. At his size, he has to lay it high on the glass, so it bounces around too much, if it gets there. Just off of shear size, they'd have to collapse on Manuel after rubbing off the screen. It was the story of the FGC and ORU games. It was also how we got Rob easy looks, after he'd been shooting contested jumpers all games.

And that's exactly what happened at the end of OT, even narrated by frog in the postgame interview

lol, I need to listen to the post game more. Our SID or whomever actually does a really nice job getting those online

by **hoopmanx** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:36 pm

Travis Bickle wrote:Derek Williams and Jon K had very good success on high ball screens. They were smart, decent shooters, and could "hide" behind the screen sometimes and have that open look. Why not our primary ball-handling guard coming off a high screen pick and roll and Rob coming off a staggered double screen at the same time.

You know the defense will 1. Switch out 2. Fight through 3. Go over the top etc so you counter

I have no problem w/structured options off the drive, so long as spacing is kept, and driving/passing lanes don't get convoluted. Another thing I like about Manuel is the fact that he goes left as much as right off the high ball screen. Keeps defenders from cheating. FWIW, in games we've run the high ball screen, Frog looked better as well. gives him a floater option, as opposed to getting in too deep

by **papawasamustang** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:52 pm

That was a tough one. Not sure why Doh didn't call a timeout @ the end of the 1st overtime to set up a different play. Do they just have the 1 play? All you have to do is stay on your man, & that will leave # 12 trying to go one on one against the opposing guard. Any opposing team is going to take those odds any & every time. He is not a finisher by any stretch. And to have the ball in his hands @ that time of the game is bad coaching.
Not to pile on, but the PG is the most important position on the court in college hoops.
Not only can the SMU PG not create his own shot, he is very poor on D. He shouldn't be on the court @ crunch time.
I agree with HoopmanX. For the long term benefit of this program, you have to get Manuel on the court & get him the experience. He appears to be everything #12 is not, when given the opportunity.
In addition, not giving Cunningham, Jones, & Vilde more burn is almost criminal.

Doh is an easy target to second guess. His substitutions make no sense. If he has no confidence in Manuel as the PG of the future, than it all falls back on Doh for not recruiting a "real" pg for this program.

The talent level is much improved. The coaching is the same.

by **GiddyUp** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:19 pm

True b/c he let frog have the reigns from the get go last year - let Manuel play

by **hoopmanx** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:48 pm

Travis, they are tied to the princeton, and placing more value on system, than getting the most talented kids on the floor. We have good athletes but we never run, even w/numbers. We don't offensive rebound by design or get into the offense w/any pace. We should grab boards, push it up, and set the O, before defenses can set. Our tempo doesn't meet the roster. We don't have that low post presence, as you've stated, so why be an exclusively half-court team? Adapt the system to fit the strength of the players.