Doherty and the future

[DiamondM75]

I currently compare SMU with Baylor. Six or seven years ago, Baylor players were killing each other. The program was in terrible condition and they were a losing program in the Big 12.

Now they are winning the Big 12 and ranked in the top 10. They are located in WACO and don't have great facilities, but they have turned around a program.

It happens in basketball in 4 or 5 years. We are in year 6 and we have not make any court progress. Yes, we have Crum and yes, we are upgrading Moody, but the court progress just isn't there.

I am not knocking the players. I am critical of the system and the coaching. That is why I would like to see Doh fired tomorrow, let the assistants complete the season and start a national coach search now.

[mustangxc]

SMU beat Baylor at least once if not a couple of times while Bliss was their coach. They really were nowhere near the team they are now despite some talented players such as Lawrence Roberts and John Lucas III.

[mustangxc]

Dement was let go because as soon as Tubbs left to become an assistant to Sampson at OU the recruiting pipeline to top area kids dried up. Additionally, we started off the 2003-04 season quite well beating a top 25 ranked Purdue team at Purdue only to be followed by an epic collapse. Dement lost that team and so Copeland wanted to give Tubbs a chance. I equate that decision to firing June Jones midway through the 2013 season if the team were to struggle on the field and subsequently hiring Adrian Klemm to take over in 2014.

[Bergermeister]

I wish him all the best at his next job. Nice guy. That's about it.

[Hoop Fan]

My point was not to bash JFrog at all. I think Frog has a great heart and gets alot out of his ability. But if you are starting a team with a blank slate, who do you take as your leader Stephen Woods or JFrog? Its not even close in my opinion. Both kids are Mustangs, but its a simple point: Dement had less resources to work with and did more. Doh was brought in to do BETTER than Dement did by definition, but has fallen far short. Question: Doh has one year left on his contract, unless you extend him publicly, you are basically firing him as far as recruiting goes. Who in their right mind could give Doh another extension right now?? That's what it comes down to in year 6 of your tenure. This isn't year 3.

[Charleston Pony]

My point was not to bash JFrog at all. I think Frog has a great heart and gets alot out of his ability. But if you are starting a team with a blank slate, who do you take as your leader Stephen Woods or JFrog? Its not even close in my opinion. Both kids are Mustangs, but its a simple point: Dement had less resources to work with and did more. Doh was brought in to do BETTER than Dement did by definition, but has fallen far short. Question: Doh has one year left on his contract, unless you extend him publicly, you are basically firing him as far as recruiting goes. Who in their right mind could give Doh another extension right now?? That's what it comes down to in year 6 of your tenure. This isn't year 3.

I'm not really sure I like Woods vs Frog. I remember Woods as a score 1st guy. maybe his best assist:turnover ratio was his FR year and went downhill from there. I don't think he even averaged 3 assists per game, and he jacked up a ton of treys but shot no higher percentage than Frog. I don't think he shot as high a percentage on FTs as Frog. I rank them as very comparable PGs at SMU, in terms of their overall effectiveness

[hoopmanx]

I loved Woods, but he was a heist. Never met a shot he didn't like. Those guys hated passing

[shadowman]

Woods was a scorer, not a point gaurd.

The best thing he did from a pass perspective was the set play pick and roll with Poerner, usually at the three point line.

I loved Woods as a player and scorer and he could outscore Samp any day of the week. But even as a sophmore, J-Frog is a better pure point than Woods ever was.

[Balatro Diabolus Ex]

You're high if you think this run has topped Dement's.

Then why did they fire Dement? Bottom line - one sentence and I am not talking about UNCG where he won 35% of his games and Doh didn't marry the women's coach either.

Because Dement waas held to a higher standard. There's your one sentence. His final year he lost the team, and there were some ugly losses, (nothing that would compare to losing to Jackson State or UAPB, but ugly compared to the level of competition that we played at that time), and when things started to slide Copeland cut the cord. Overall, the teams performance under Dement far exceeded the past 6 year by every measurable factor.

[Balatro Diabolus Ex]

its a tough, cruel business, it really is. I thank the players and coaches for their efforts in beating TCU, that is a game that is very important to the fans. It was nice to win one. Being 2-7 and in last place in CUSA is pretty bad stuff though. Being a good guy and running a clean program is great, but at SMU its automatic. All of our football and basketball coaches over the past 20 years have been solid citizens and run clean programs, with a few minor hiccups along the way. But the bottom line for all coaches is they have to win and get the fan base enthused. I don't know if you were around during Dements tenure (basically the tenure Doh succeeded and the best measuring stick for Doh), i'm guessing you were not, but those were much better days in terms of winning, attendance, enthusiasm and entertaining basketball. Some of those teams were very young too, with freshman and underclassmen contributing if not leading the way - Q Ross, Sasser, Davis, Woods. No offense, but even Stephen Woods was 3 times the player and point guard that Frog is. Why has Doh turned the program over to Frog? I don't know, good kid, but not exactly program changing at all - SMU has done much better, even in the recent past. Just can't have the huge holes at point guard and in the post in year 6 of any tenure, no matter what you think of the situation you inherited. I wish Doh luck i really do, but barring something amazing happening on the court to finish this season, its time for a change.

We can agree to disagree and I like Mike Dement but we never won the conference, players didn't graduate, and we had one NIT game that we got beat very bad. I would much rather win 3 CIT Games against quaility opponents. Mike also played a very deliberate style until he "sold out" and starting running.

Once again, it's neccessary to correct a blatant lie. Every player that stayed 4 years under Dement graduated. Dewayne Floyd is the only player I can think of who didnt eventually finish his degree either at SMU or at the school they transferred to.

The 3 teams SMU beat in last year's CIT had RPI's of 131, 146, and 112. In other words, they were in the CIT because they werent good enough to make thhe NIT. The best of those, Northern Iowa, has a high ranking because they started the season well, but after Lucas O'rear broke his ankle they crashed, going 2-9 without him.

[Balatro Diabolus Ex]

Jacksonville beat Florida and Miami on their court, Northern Iowa beat Kansas the year before in the NCAA Tournament,Oral Roberts recently had their 13 game home winning streak snapped. Memphis was loaded and we beat them. USM lost to Memphis by 2 in the tournament to go to the NCAA. What more evidence to you need?

Who did Dement's team's defeat in one season like that? They never won the conference, got killed in the NIT. Ok, I will accept your word that his players graduated. The DB years were the best and you know why. $$$$$$$$

You're accepting my word? That's amazing, considering that you "foed" me, and cant read my posts anymore. Or...... gosh.... I guess maybe you didnt.

OK, we played those teams at the end of the 2011 season, not 2010, not 2012. Northern Iowa had an excellent 2010, and made a great start on the 2010-2011 season, but they couldnt beat anyone after O'Rear got hurt and thats the team we played. Pretending otherwise is simply disingenous. Jacksonville did NOT beat Miami, they lost 89-77. They did pull a huge upset of Florida, which help counterbalance their losses to Florida Gulf Coast, Stetson, Winthrop, Mercer, and North Florida.

Actually, Oral Roberts home winning streak is still intact, (SMU is #2 of the 13 consecutive home wins), it was their overall win streak that was broken at South Dakota State recently. It doesnt actually matter though, since all of those wins are THIS year, and not last year. You cant take the accomplishments of a different season, and pretend that you actually beat the better team.

Since you like to mix up the years so much, why arent you telling people that Jacksonville is just 5-19 this year, last in the Atlantic Sun, and 290 in the RPI? That would have just as much relevance as your constant use of the different season results for ORU and NIU.

When you say the DB years, you're not seriously bring up Dave Bliss, are you?

[mustangbill67]

I love it. Bickle v. the Professor. No contest. the Professor is all knowing and a good guy as well.

[Stallion]

SMU's RPI reached as high as 39 prior to the disasterous Tulsa/TCU -double last minute home losses-weekend. SMU was right there despite much more stringent academic standards. Doherty is about 150-200 RPI points below that. Get rid of him. When you can't get to .500 in Conference in 6 years despite a fair academic model its time for him to go.