Tweet from Myles Turner after the game

[Pony ^]

All that said, If smu gets mudiay and turner in one class, the watchdogs will be out anyway. Be careful what you wish for lol. We'd be better off hanging w recruits in the 25-125 range, IMO.. Just saying...

This is what I've been worried about. If Turner committed to SMU when he didn't even have us in his top 6, that would have to raise a few eyebrows.

[CoxMustangFan]

hoop, you know I value your input (as do many others), but why say or imply anything that isn't above board -- especially at a school synonymous with scandal? What's to gain? There's an underbelly to everything. We get it.

CMF, you get it but many/most here did not. They think a win or two, cheering for the kid at games(which isnt exactly loved by the NCAA), matters. It doesn't. As for smu being synonymous with scandal, that was a lifetime ago and we've been on probation since. Can't live scared. I agree w you, there isn't much to gain, but there isn't anything to lose either. Its essentially vague message board gossip, big freakin deal.

All that said, If smu gets mudiay and turner in one class, the watchdogs will be out anyway. Be careful what you wish for lol. We'd be better off hanging w recruits in the 25-125 range, IMO.. Just saying...

As someone who rarely knows where my car keys are located, I'm not one to explain how the World works. I have followed bball recruiting like a sport for many years, so hopefully I've learned a thing or two. Love your insight on recruiting (not to mention my awesome GF shirt), but I just hope we would defer some topics to drunkin' bar talk. BTW, next round is on me next time your punk [deleted] is in Dallas!

[hoopmanx]

All that said, If smu gets mudiay and turner in one class, the watchdogs will be out anyway. Be careful what you wish for lol. We'd be better off hanging w recruits in the 25-125 range, IMO.. Just saying...

This is what I've been worried about. If Turner committed to SMU when he didn't even have us in his top 6, that would have to raise a few eyebrows.

Can you imagine 2 of the top 5 recruiting classes in the land being smu and unlv lol...

[hoopmanx]

hoop, you know I value your input (as do many others), but why say or imply anything that isn't above board -- especially at a school synonymous with scandal? What's to gain? There's an underbelly to everything. We get it.

CMF, you get it but many/most here did not. They think a win or two, cheering for the kid at games(which isnt exactly loved by the NCAA), matters. It doesn't. As for smu being synonymous with scandal, that was a lifetime ago and we've been on probation since. Can't live scared. I agree w you, there isn't much to gain, but there isn't anything to lose either. Its essentially vague message board gossip, big freakin deal.

All that said, If smu gets mudiay and turner in one class, the watchdogs will be out anyway. Be careful what you wish for lol. We'd be better off hanging w recruits in the 25-125 range, IMO.. Just saying...

Ha, I'll take you up on that. You're one of the good ones

As someone who rarely knows where my car keys are located, I'm not one to explain how the World works. I have followed bball recruiting like a sport for many years, so hopefully I've learned a thing or two. Love your insight on recruiting (not to mention my awesome GF shirt), but I just hope we would defer some topics to drunkin' bar talk. BTW, next round is on me next time your punk [deleted] is in Dallas!

[ponyinNC]

I get more info from X's twitter account than I did on the last year of my Rivals Sub...

PS - I know nothing about AAU circuits or BB recruiting. I'm a 36 yr-old white guy that hasn't played competitive BB since High School days and college intramurals. To think I would know what young, african-american basketball players look for in a school is laughable.

I just wanted hot girls and a small, urban campus. That was it.

[CoxMustangFan]

I get more info from X's twitter account than I did on the last year of my Rivals Sub...

PS - I know nothing about AAU circuits or BB recruiting. I'm a 36 yr-old white guy that hasn't played competitive BB since High School days and college intramurals. To think I would know what young, african-american basketball players look for in a school is laughable.

I just wanted hot girls and a small, urban campus. That was it.

I just wanted/needed a school with guaranteed admissions. I'd like to say that was a joke.

[ponyinNC]

I get more info from X's twitter account than I did on the last year of my Rivals Sub...

PS - I know nothing about AAU circuits or BB recruiting. I'm a 36 yr-old white guy that hasn't played competitive BB since High School days and college intramurals. To think I would know what young, african-american basketball players look for in a school is laughable.

I just wanted hot girls and a small, urban campus. That was it.

I just wanted/needed a school with guaranteed admissions. I'd like to say that was a joke.

[smudubs]

Stallion for the win.

Hey, that's not fair. I've been in a meeting all day and didn't realize I was in the middle of a competition. I guess I lost by forfeit. Crap, guess I will move on with my day. Congrats on the win Stallion. Until we meet again.

[hoopmanx]

Stallion for the win.

Hey, that's not fair. I've been in a meeting all day and didn't realize I was in the middle of a competition. I guess I lost by forfeit. Crap, guess I will move on with my day. Congrats on the win Stallion. Until we meet again.

Ha, your post was great. I believe that stallion ftw comment was about his take that I'm a loose cannon and am NCAA violation waiting to happen

[fmced]

I am loathe weigh in here, but here goes (and Hoopmanx, please correct me, if you are able w/o compromising yourself, where wrong):

1. BBall recruiting became a completely different kettle of fish in Tx when summer leagues were approved by UIL. For you youngsters, there was a time when there were no summer camps and no organized out-of-season playing of any sort. AAU ball was a no-no. Then summer leagues sprang up in the late 80s ('88?) as I recall. As happens at the beginning of most things (see marriage), everything happens for all the right reasons - and it did. Lots of fine fellows started coaching summer ball.

2. But as so often happens, Eve takes a bite of the apple. Recall SMU had just received the death penalty and so payments to players, at least in the SWC, became something that coaches were having a hard time dealing with. Serendipitously, a guy named Michael Jordan was making a name for himself and the shoes he wore.

3. The shoe companies were seeing that celebrity BB players could drive sales to a lot of zeros. Agents and street agents saw dollar signs, and especially inner city kids w/ hops and a shot but no cash became easy prey. It was the wild west for several years.

4. Of course, lots of good BBall players could look great in high school games playing against woefully undermatched opponents. "All-state" players could turn into stiffs once they finally met up against real compitition. Wouldn't it be great if we see these guys matched up against equally talented studs? So not only did leagues serve the purpose of developing skills, they served the purpose of providing a showcase for talent. High school coaches got better players coming back to them on the fall. College coaches got one-stop shopping. And young hoopmanxes got to report back on who needed to be watched for potentially "being like Mike" ( it was an early commercial).

5. As the years wore on, the AAU was the house that summer leagues occupied. Coaches for teams would compete for talent on their teams. Relationships developed. Some got to be very tight with college coaches. Some got to be very tight with shoe companies.

6. Pre- 80's, there was really on one BB shoe - Chuck Taylor cons. Addidas and Nike changed the game. They provided footware to the colleges for free. Then someone had the bright idea to pay the coach to have his team wear their brand. The early years saw most coaches getting a shoe contract for a few thou; only the top coaches could command 5 figures. Post-Jordan, the figures moved up quickly. Schools would have arguments over whether those sums should be included in the HC's contracts.

7. Because players knew they would be seen by more college coaches in the AAU games, the AAU coach usually supplanted the high school coach as the central sphere of influence. ( See the sad story of Jimmy Tubbs, hired by SMU to tap the local talent because of his tightness w/ Dallas high school coaches only the see that connection evaporate when he got the job).

8. The college coach who knew how to mine these fields would have a distinct advantage. May I present Mr. Scott Drew to you who when he got the Baylor job, immedietly hired (name slips), a Houston AAU type. Baylor!!!??? started getting talent. It wasn't because Drew was fortunate that 3,4 and 5- star recruits were Baptist.

9. Remember - shoe cos. want to have a connection w/ big-time talent. High-school seniors could go straight to pros. Rarely would a player w/ shoe-worthy talent be in college for more than 2 years. If you were a shoe rep, who would you be sure to make an entry-level relationship w/ to recommend the next Dwayne Wade?

10. Remember the old days when the coach enlisted the help from Billy Bob to, at the very least, secure the "perks" for the needed recuit. Billy Bob was "connected" w/ the program for NCAA purposes. Nike, Addidas, etc., are not. Can you think of a way to get "perks" to a player on behalf of McMurrey w/o having to deal w/ Billy Bob or the NCAA? I bet you can if you try.

11. At this point, I can only offer conjecture. But I would be willing to bet $2 on:

a. No NCAA coach wants to recruit w/ 3P involvment. Why bother if you don't have to. Those players in this category who can legitimately are fiecely fought over.
b. Rare is the HC who gets involved in this. He only tells asst.X that we really need Johnny BBall.
c. Shoe reps who conduit perks have to be intimatelt trusted. But they are doing business. They don't go to the 19th hole to tell the buddies who they "got." They don't back-stab other colleges or schools who may not have a contract w/ their company (could be wrong here). I'm relatively certain some reps change companies.
d. Hoopmanx is right saying he was in living room at home visit. Recruit is choosing school for "all the right reasons." He likes Coach X and School X, just wants to know he gets same "perks" as School Y. (Probably HC has left room when this discussion takes place) Rep confirms.
1. Don't know mechanics of how perks are delivered.
2. Don't know if School X can offer more tangible perks than School Y or if they could, how
they would make that happen.
3. Don't know how AAU coach is compensated.

Too much typing to check for errors - hope its readible.

[PonyTime]

^^^^^
I think we have a winner. I, for one, am far more educated.

Now we can delete this entire thread and pretend that it never happened...

[SMU 86]

I am loathe weigh in here, but here goes (and Hoopmanx, please correct me, if you are able w/o compromising yourself, where wrong):

1. BBall recruiting became a completely different kettle of fish in Tx when summer leagues were approved by UIL. For you youngsters, there was a time when there were no summer camps and no organized out-of-season playing of any sort. AAU ball was a no-no. Then summer leagues sprang up in the late 80s ('88?) as I recall. As happens at the beginning of most things (see marriage), everything happens for all the right reasons - and it did. Lots of fine fellows started coaching summer ball.

2. But as so often happens, Eve takes a bite of the apple. Recall SMU had just received the death penalty and so payments to players, at least in the SWC, became something that coaches were having a hard time dealing with. Serendipitously, a guy named Michael Jordan was making a name for himself and the shoes he wore.

3. The shoe companies were seeing that celebrity BB players could drive sales to a lot of zeros. Agents and street agents saw dollar signs, and especially inner city kids w/ hops and a shot but no cash became easy prey. It was the wild west for several years.

4. Of course, lots of good BBall players could look great in high school games playing against woefully undermatched opponents. "All-state" players could turn into stiffs once they finally met up against real compitition. Wouldn't it be great if we see these guys matched up against equally talented studs? So not only did leagues serve the purpose of developing skills, they served the purpose of providing a showcase for talent. High school coaches got better players coming back to them on the fall. College coaches got one-stop shopping. And young hoopmanxes got to report back on who needed to be watched for potentially "being like Mike" ( it was an early commercial).

5. As the years wore on, the AAU was the house that summer leagues occupied. Coaches for teams would compete for talent on their teams. Relationships developed. Some got to be very tight with college coaches. Some got to be very tight with shoe companies.

6. Pre- 80's, there was really on one BB shoe - Chuck Taylor cons. Addidas and Nike changed the game. They provided footware to the colleges for free. Then someone had the bright idea to pay the coach to have his team wear their brand. The early years saw most coaches getting a shoe contract for a few thou; only the top coaches could command 5 figures. Post-Jordan, the figures moved up quickly. Schools would have arguments over whether those sums should be included in the HC's contracts.

7. Because players knew they would be seen by more college coaches in the AAU games, the AAU coach usually supplanted the high school coach as the central sphere of influence. ( See the sad story of Jimmy Tubbs, hired by SMU to tap the local talent because of his tightness w/ Dallas high school coaches only the see that connection evaporate when he got the job).

8. The college coach who knew how to mine these fields would have a distinct advantage. May I present Mr. Scott Drew to you who when he got the Baylor job, immedietly hired (name slips), a Houston AAU type. Baylor!!!??? started getting talent. It wasn't because Drew was fortunate that 3,4 and 5- star recruits were Baptist.

9. Remember - shoe cos. want to have a connection w/ big-time talent. High-school seniors could go straight to pros. Rarely would a player w/ shoe-worthy talent be in college for more than 2 years. If you were a shoe rep, who would you be sure to make an entry-level relationship w/ to recommend the next Dwayne Wade?

10. Remember the old days when the coach enlisted the help from Billy Bob to, at the very least, secure the "perks" for the needed recuit. Billy Bob was "connected" w/ the program for NCAA purposes. Nike, Addidas, etc., are not. Can you think of a way to get "perks" to a player on behalf of McMurrey w/o having to deal w/ Billy Bob or the NCAA? I bet you can if you try.

11. At this point, I can only offer conjecture. But I would be willing to bet $2 on:

a. No NCAA coach wants to recruit w/ 3P involvment. Why bother if you don't have to. Those players in this category who can legitimately are fiecely fought over.
b. Rare is the HC who gets involved in this. He only tells asst.X that we really need Johnny BBall.
c. Shoe reps who conduit perks have to be intimatelt trusted. But they are doing business. They don't go to the 19th hole to tell the buddies who they "got." They don't back-stab other colleges or schools who may not have a contract w/ their company (could be wrong here). I'm relatively certain some reps change companies.
d. Hoopmanx is right saying he was in living room at home visit. Recruit is choosing school for "all the right reasons." He likes Coach X and School X, just wants to know he gets same "perks" as School Y. (Probably HC has left room when this discussion takes place) Rep confirms.
1. Don't know mechanics of how perks are delivered.
2. Don't know if School X can offer more tangible perks than School Y or if they could, how
they would make that happen.
3. Don't know how AAU coach is compensated.

Too much typing to check for errors - hope its readible.

What are the "perks?"

[OhioBrownFan]

I am loathe weigh in here, but here goes (and Hoopmanx, please correct me, if you are able w/o compromising yourself, where wrong):

1. BBall recruiting became a completely different kettle of fish in Tx when summer leagues were approved by UIL. For you youngsters, there was a time when there were no summer camps and no organized out-of-season playing of any sort. AAU ball was a no-no. Then summer leagues sprang up in the late 80s ('88?) as I recall. As happens at the beginning of most things (see marriage), everything happens for all the right reasons - and it did. Lots of fine fellows started coaching summer ball.

2. But as so often happens, Eve takes a bite of the apple. Recall SMU had just received the death penalty and so payments to players, at least in the SWC, became something that coaches were having a hard time dealing with. Serendipitously, a guy named Michael Jordan was making a name for himself and the shoes he wore.

3. The shoe companies were seeing that celebrity BB players could drive sales to a lot of zeros. Agents and street agents saw dollar signs, and especially inner city kids w/ hops and a shot but no cash became easy prey. It was the wild west for several years.

4. Of course, lots of good BBall players could look great in high school games playing against woefully undermatched opponents. "All-state" players could turn into stiffs once they finally met up against real compitition. Wouldn't it be great if we see these guys matched up against equally talented studs? So not only did leagues serve the purpose of developing skills, they served the purpose of providing a showcase for talent. High school coaches got better players coming back to them on the fall. College coaches got one-stop shopping. And young hoopmanxes got to report back on who needed to be watched for potentially "being like Mike" ( it was an early commercial).

5. As the years wore on, the AAU was the house that summer leagues occupied. Coaches for teams would compete for talent on their teams. Relationships developed. Some got to be very tight with college coaches. Some got to be very tight with shoe companies.

6. Pre- 80's, there was really on one BB shoe - Chuck Taylor cons. Addidas and Nike changed the game. They provided footware to the colleges for free. Then someone had the bright idea to pay the coach to have his team wear their brand. The early years saw most coaches getting a shoe contract for a few thou; only the top coaches could command 5 figures. Post-Jordan, the figures moved up quickly. Schools would have arguments over whether those sums should be included in the HC's contracts.

7. Because players knew they would be seen by more college coaches in the AAU games, the AAU coach usually supplanted the high school coach as the central sphere of influence. ( See the sad story of Jimmy Tubbs, hired by SMU to tap the local talent because of his tightness w/ Dallas high school coaches only the see that connection evaporate when he got the job).

8. The college coach who knew how to mine these fields would have a distinct advantage. May I present Mr. Scott Drew to you who when he got the Baylor job, immedietly hired (name slips), a Houston AAU type. Baylor!!!??? started getting talent. It wasn't because Drew was fortunate that 3,4 and 5- star recruits were Baptist.

9. Remember - shoe cos. want to have a connection w/ big-time talent. High-school seniors could go straight to pros. Rarely would a player w/ shoe-worthy talent be in college for more than 2 years. If you were a shoe rep, who would you be sure to make an entry-level relationship w/ to recommend the next Dwayne Wade?

10. Remember the old days when the coach enlisted the help from Billy Bob to, at the very least, secure the "perks" for the needed recuit. Billy Bob was "connected" w/ the program for NCAA purposes. Nike, Addidas, etc., are not. Can you think of a way to get "perks" to a player on behalf of McMurrey w/o having to deal w/ Billy Bob or the NCAA? I bet you can if you try.

11. At this point, I can only offer conjecture. But I would be willing to bet $2 on:

a. No NCAA coach wants to recruit w/ 3P involvment. Why bother if you don't have to. Those players in this category who can legitimately are fiecely fought over.
b. Rare is the HC who gets involved in this. He only tells asst.X that we really need Johnny BBall.
c. Shoe reps who conduit perks have to be intimatelt trusted. But they are doing business. They don't go to the 19th hole to tell the buddies who they "got." They don't back-stab other colleges or schools who may not have a contract w/ their company (could be wrong here). I'm relatively certain some reps change companies.
d. Hoopmanx is right saying he was in living room at home visit. Recruit is choosing school for "all the right reasons." He likes Coach X and School X, just wants to know he gets same "perks" as School Y. (Probably HC has left room when this discussion takes place) Rep confirms.
1. Don't know mechanics of how perks are delivered.
2. Don't know if School X can offer more tangible perks than School Y or if they could, how
they would make that happen.
3. Don't know how AAU coach is compensated.

Too much typing to check for errors - hope its readible.

Hell of a summary, looks about right to me. All goes back to one man who changed basketball forever in the 60s all the way through to him signing Jordan at Nike, Sonny Vaccaro. Also the most interesting basketball related individual I have ever spoken with and by a landslide.

[PonyTime]

I am loathe weigh in here, but here goes (and Hoopmanx, please correct me, if you are able w/o compromising yourself, where wrong):

1. BBall recruiting became a completely different kettle of fish in Tx when summer leagues were approved by UIL. For you youngsters, there was a time when there were no summer camps and no organized out-of-season playing of any sort. AAU ball was a no-no. Then summer leagues sprang up in the late 80s ('88?) as I recall. As happens at the beginning of most things (see marriage), everything happens for all the right reasons - and it did. Lots of fine fellows started coaching summer ball.

2. But as so often happens, Eve takes a bite of the apple. Recall SMU had just received the death penalty and so payments to players, at least in the SWC, became something that coaches were having a hard time dealing with. Serendipitously, a guy named Michael Jordan was making a name for himself and the shoes he wore.

3. The shoe companies were seeing that celebrity BB players could drive sales to a lot of zeros. Agents and street agents saw dollar signs, and especially inner city kids w/ hops and a shot but no cash became easy prey. It was the wild west for several years.

4. Of course, lots of good BBall players could look great in high school games playing against woefully undermatched opponents. "All-state" players could turn into stiffs once they finally met up against real compitition. Wouldn't it be great if we see these guys matched up against equally talented studs? So not only did leagues serve the purpose of developing skills, they served the purpose of providing a showcase for talent. High school coaches got better players coming back to them on the fall. College coaches got one-stop shopping. And young hoopmanxes got to report back on who needed to be watched for potentially "being like Mike" ( it was an early commercial).

5. As the years wore on, the AAU was the house that summer leagues occupied. Coaches for teams would compete for talent on their teams. Relationships developed. Some got to be very tight with college coaches. Some got to be very tight with shoe companies.

6. Pre- 80's, there was really on one BB shoe - Chuck Taylor cons. Addidas and Nike changed the game. They provided footware to the colleges for free. Then someone had the bright idea to pay the coach to have his team wear their brand. The early years saw most coaches getting a shoe contract for a few thou; only the top coaches could command 5 figures. Post-Jordan, the figures moved up quickly. Schools would have arguments over whether those sums should be included in the HC's contracts.

7. Because players knew they would be seen by more college coaches in the AAU games, the AAU coach usually supplanted the high school coach as the central sphere of influence. ( See the sad story of Jimmy Tubbs, hired by SMU to tap the local talent because of his tightness w/ Dallas high school coaches only the see that connection evaporate when he got the job).

8. The college coach who knew how to mine these fields would have a distinct advantage. May I present Mr. Scott Drew to you who when he got the Baylor job, immedietly hired (name slips), a Houston AAU type. Baylor!!!??? started getting talent. It wasn't because Drew was fortunate that 3,4 and 5- star recruits were Baptist.

9. Remember - shoe cos. want to have a connection w/ big-time talent. High-school seniors could go straight to pros. Rarely would a player w/ shoe-worthy talent be in college for more than 2 years. If you were a shoe rep, who would you be sure to make an entry-level relationship w/ to recommend the next Dwayne Wade?

10. Remember the old days when the coach enlisted the help from Billy Bob to, at the very least, secure the "perks" for the needed recuit. Billy Bob was "connected" w/ the program for NCAA purposes. Nike, Addidas, etc., are not. Can you think of a way to get "perks" to a player on behalf of McMurrey w/o having to deal w/ Billy Bob or the NCAA? I bet you can if you try.

11. At this point, I can only offer conjecture. But I would be willing to bet $2 on:

a. No NCAA coach wants to recruit w/ 3P involvment. Why bother if you don't have to. Those players in this category who can legitimately are fiecely fought over.
b. Rare is the HC who gets involved in this. He only tells asst.X that we really need Johnny BBall.
c. Shoe reps who conduit perks have to be intimatelt trusted. But they are doing business. They don't go to the 19th hole to tell the buddies who they "got." They don't back-stab other colleges or schools who may not have a contract w/ their company (could be wrong here). I'm relatively certain some reps change companies.
d. Hoopmanx is right saying he was in living room at home visit. Recruit is choosing school for "all the right reasons." He likes Coach X and School X, just wants to know he gets same "perks" as School Y. (Probably HC has left room when this discussion takes place) Rep confirms.
1. Don't know mechanics of how perks are delivered.
2. Don't know if School X can offer more tangible perks than School Y or if they could, how
they would make that happen.
3. Don't know how AAU coach is compensated.

Too much typing to check for errors - hope its readible.

What are the "perks?"

[StandUp]

Thank you for your post fmced. Well thought out and articulated. I for one, probably learned more about basketball recruiting in your one post than the last 5 years worth of Hoopmanx and LA_Mustang posts combined. Know that your insight is appreciated. Look forward to reading your future posts. Thank you. I don't remember the exact saying, but I guess this goes to show that those that know don't say and those that say don't always know. We could all learn a little something from each other.