Tweet from Myles Turner after the game

[smupony94]

Yeah

[PonyKris89]

. But that is just my impression from his video interviews.

lol, thanks for coming in today

Like I said, just my impression, nothing more, nothing less, JMO.

This thread still sucks.

Popcorn anyone?

[ojaipony]

Two things you missed:

1 - said shoe companies/brands pay coaches directly big bucks to get access and their brands at the school
2 - Sonny is now on a crusade to change the game he helped create (see "Schooled" documentary)

All else sounds right from my 10,000 foot level.

[ojaipony]

All that said, If smu gets mudiay and turner in one class, the watchdogs will be out anyway. Be careful what you wish for lol. We'd be better off hanging w recruits in the 25-125 range, IMO.. Just saying...

This is what I've been worried about. If Turner committed to SMU when he didn't even have us in his top 6, that would have to raise a few eyebrows.

Yep, and especially with the big state schools after him (Texas cough cough).

[hoopmanx]

I am loathe weigh in here, but here goes (and Hoopmanx, please correct me, if you are able w/o compromising yourself, where wrong):

1. BBall recruiting became a completely different kettle of fish in Tx when summer leagues were approved by UIL. For you youngsters, there was a time when there were no summer camps and no organized out-of-season playing of any sort. AAU ball was a no-no. Then summer leagues sprang up in the late 80s ('88?) as I recall. As happens at the beginning of most things (see marriage), everything happens for all the right reasons - and it did. Lots of fine fellows started coaching summer ball.

2. But as so often happens, Eve takes a bite of the apple. Recall SMU had just received the death penalty and so payments to players, at least in the SWC, became something that coaches were having a hard time dealing with. Serendipitously, a guy named Michael Jordan was making a name for himself and the shoes he wore.

3. The shoe companies were seeing that celebrity BB players could drive sales to a lot of zeros. Agents and street agents saw dollar signs, and especially inner city kids w/ hops and a shot but no cash became easy prey. It was the wild west for several years.

4. Of course, lots of good BBall players could look great in high school games playing against woefully undermatched opponents. "All-state" players could turn into stiffs once they finally met up against real compitition. Wouldn't it be great if we see these guys matched up against equally talented studs? So not only did leagues serve the purpose of developing skills, they served the purpose of providing a showcase for talent. High school coaches got better players coming back to them on the fall. College coaches got one-stop shopping. And young hoopmanxes got to report back on who needed to be watched for potentially "being like Mike" ( it was an early commercial).

5. As the years wore on, the AAU was the house that summer leagues occupied. Coaches for teams would compete for talent on their teams. Relationships developed. Some got to be very tight with college coaches. Some got to be very tight with shoe companies.

6. Pre- 80's, there was really on one BB shoe - Chuck Taylor cons. Addidas and Nike changed the game. They provided footware to the colleges for free. Then someone had the bright idea to pay the coach to have his team wear their brand. The early years saw most coaches getting a shoe contract for a few thou; only the top coaches could command 5 figures. Post-Jordan, the figures moved up quickly. Schools would have arguments over whether those sums should be included in the HC's contracts.

7. Because players knew they would be seen by more college coaches in the AAU games, the AAU coach usually supplanted the high school coach as the central sphere of influence. ( See the sad story of Jimmy Tubbs, hired by SMU to tap the local talent because of his tightness w/ Dallas high school coaches only the see that connection evaporate when he got the job).

8. The college coach who knew how to mine these fields would have a distinct advantage. May I present Mr. Scott Drew to you who when he got the Baylor job, immedietly hired (name slips), a Houston AAU type. Baylor!!!??? started getting talent. It wasn't because Drew was fortunate that 3,4 and 5- star recruits were Baptist.

9. Remember - shoe cos. want to have a connection w/ big-time talent. High-school seniors could go straight to pros. Rarely would a player w/ shoe-worthy talent be in college for more than 2 years. If you were a shoe rep, who would you be sure to make an entry-level relationship w/ to recommend the next Dwayne Wade?

10. Remember the old days when the coach enlisted the help from Billy Bob to, at the very least, secure the "perks" for the needed recuit. Billy Bob was "connected" w/ the program for NCAA purposes. Nike, Addidas, etc., are not. Can you think of a way to get "perks" to a player on behalf of McMurrey w/o having to deal w/ Billy Bob or the NCAA? I bet you can if you try.

11. At this point, I can only offer conjecture. But I would be willing to bet $2 on:

a. No NCAA coach wants to recruit w/ 3P involvment. Why bother if you don't have to. Those players in this category who can legitimately are fiecely fought over.
b. Rare is the HC who gets involved in this. He only tells asst.X that we really need Johnny BBall.
c. Shoe reps who conduit perks have to be intimatelt trusted. But they are doing business. They don't go to the 19th hole to tell the buddies who they "got." They don't back-stab other colleges or schools who may not have a contract w/ their company (could be wrong here). I'm relatively certain some reps change companies.
d. Hoopmanx is right saying he was in living room at home visit. Recruit is choosing school for "all the right reasons." He likes Coach X and School X, just wants to know he gets same "perks" as School Y. (Probably HC has left room when this discussion takes place) Rep confirms.
1. Don't know mechanics of how perks are delivered.
2. Don't know if School X can offer more tangible perks than School Y or if they could, how
they would make that happen.
3. Don't know how AAU coach is compensated.

Too much typing to check for errors - hope its readible.

I am loathe weigh in here, but here goes (and Hoopmanx, please correct me, if you are able w/o compromising yourself, where wrong):

1. BBall recruiting became a completely different kettle of fish in Tx when summer leagues were approved by UIL. For you youngsters, there was a time when there were no summer camps and no organized out-of-season playing of any sort. AAU ball was a no-no. Then summer leagues sprang up in the late 80s ('88?) as I recall. As happens at the beginning of most things (see marriage), everything happens for all the right reasons - and it did. Lots of fine fellows started coaching summer ball.

2. But as so often happens, Eve takes a bite of the apple. Recall SMU had just received the death penalty and so payments to players, at least in the SWC, became something that coaches were having a hard time dealing with. Serendipitously, a guy named Michael Jordan was making a name for himself and the shoes he wore.

3. The shoe companies were seeing that celebrity BB players could drive sales to a lot of zeros. Agents and street agents saw dollar signs, and especially inner city kids w/ hops and a shot but no cash became easy prey. It was the wild west for several years.

4. Of course, lots of good BBall players could look great in high school games playing against woefully undermatched opponents. "All-state" players could turn into stiffs once they finally met up against real compitition. Wouldn't it be great if we see these guys matched up against equally talented studs? So not only did leagues serve the purpose of developing skills, they served the purpose of providing a showcase for talent. High school coaches got better players coming back to them on the fall. College coaches got one-stop shopping. And young hoopmanxes got to report back on who needed to be watched for potentially "being like Mike" ( it was an early commercial).

5. As the years wore on, the AAU was the house that summer leagues occupied. Coaches for teams would compete for talent on their teams. Relationships developed. Some got to be very tight with college coaches. Some got to be very tight with shoe companies.

6. Pre- 80's, there was really on one BB shoe - Chuck Taylor cons. Addidas and Nike changed the game. They provided footware to the colleges for free. Then someone had the bright idea to pay the coach to have his team wear their brand. The early years saw most coaches getting a shoe contract for a few thou; only the top coaches could command 5 figures. Post-Jordan, the figures moved up quickly. Schools would have arguments over whether those sums should be included in the HC's contracts.

7. Because players knew they would be seen by more college coaches in the AAU games, the AAU coach usually supplanted the high school coach as the central sphere of influence. ( See the sad story of Jimmy Tubbs, hired by SMU to tap the local talent because of his tightness w/ Dallas high school coaches only the see that connection evaporate when he got the job).

8. The college coach who knew how to mine these fields would have a distinct advantage. May I present Mr. Scott Drew to you who when he got the Baylor job, immedietly hired (name slips), a Houston AAU type. Baylor!!!??? started getting talent. It wasn't because Drew was fortunate that 3,4 and 5- star recruits were Baptist.

9. Remember - shoe cos. want to have a connection w/ big-time talent. High-school seniors could go straight to pros. Rarely would a player w/ shoe-worthy talent be in college for more than 2 years. If you were a shoe rep, who would you be sure to make an entry-level relationship w/ to recommend the next Dwayne Wade?

10. Remember the old days when the coach enlisted the help from Billy Bob to, at the very least, secure the "perks" for the needed recuit. Billy Bob was "connected" w/ the program for NCAA purposes. Nike, Addidas, etc., are not. Can you think of a way to get "perks" to a player on behalf of McMurrey w/o having to deal w/ Billy Bob or the NCAA? I bet you can if you try.

11. At this point, I can only offer conjecture. But I would be willing to bet $2 on:

a. No NCAA coach wants to recruit w/ 3P involvment. Why bother if you don't have to. Those players in this category who can legitimately are fiecely fought over.
b. Rare is the HC who gets involved in this. He only tells asst.X that we really need Johnny BBall.
c. Shoe reps who conduit perks have to be intimatelt trusted. But they are doing business. They don't go to the 19th hole to tell the buddies who they "got." They don't back-stab other colleges or schools who may not have a contract w/ their company (could be wrong here). I'm relatively certain some reps change companies.
d. Hoopmanx is right saying he was in living room at home visit. Recruit is choosing school for "all the right reasons." He likes Coach X and School X, just wants to know he gets same "perks" as School Y. (Probably HC has left room when this discussion takes place) Rep confirms.
1. Don't know mechanics of how perks are delivered.
2. Don't know if School X can offer more tangible perks than School Y or if they could, how
they would make that happen.
3. Don't know how AAU coach is compensated.

Too much typing to check for errors - hope its readible.

That's a really wonderful post. One thing you illustrate but I'll elaborate on is the landscape prior to aau ball. Aau is unfairly demonized b/c of the perception that it took away the influence of the high school and it's coaches. The reality is that as an urban sport, street handlers always existed. Aau provided actual structure for coaches as opposed to heading to the hood, asking permission from a thug or dealer, to have a meeting w/a kid.

As for perks, head coaches are seldom involved, though they always know the score. perks really range the spectrum. Jobs, cash and child care are 3 biggies. Aau coaches are compensated a slew of ways. Flagships get operating overhead from apparel companies, as well as a salary.

Many programs have gone the way of the entertainment group. The atlanta celtics, for example, have a law firm and sports agency attached to the program. They raise to up via Adidas funds, take care of your travel, food, clothes and exposure, and then rep you when you turn pro. The kids end up brand loyal and kick back down via percentage and gifting. See Dwight Howard and josh smith. Dc assault used to steer their kids to their agent as well, which resulted in a percentage kick back to the organization. Michael Beasley sorta messed that all up,though. In short, this is hip hop, not white collar business and never was.

The NCAA can't regulate an industry it doesn't understand. Several years ago, doodie Lewis(?) repped Rudy gay. The year after gay signed w uconn, Jim Calhoun scheduled a preseason exhibition w the bmore all-stars, a team that didn't exist. Doodie grabbed 12 barely able bodies, headed up to stools, got completely drilled and cashed a 25k check from uconn directly. Next year, the NCAA closed that loophole, but too late. Meanwhile,the coach that complained about the arrangement, Gary Williams, got iced in Baltimore, and subsequently retired cause he couldn't get players and was fed up. You can't fight city hall, and everyone knows the NCAA is a farce of an organization that hoards money from athletes and profit mongers off their likeness. An entire industry has developed to offset that injustice, and it moves too fast to crack down.

[StandUp]

Thanks for opening up Hoopmanx. Good read, interesting.

[CoxMustangFan]

Good update from Bossi. Consistent with what I've heard from different sources.

http://kansas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1612458

Latest on Turner

"Is there anything new with Myles Turner? Has he set up any other visits?"
-- Brandon M., Oklahoma City (via email)

I guess you could say that there is and there isn't anything new on the nation's No. 6 player, Myles Turner. The big man from Dallas (Texas) Trinity is the top unsigned player in the country and will likely be the only player at April's McDonald's All-American game who hasn't made his college choice. So, what's the hold up?

Texas looks to be in the best position for Myles Turner.
I don't know that I would say that there is a hold up. Turner has always said that he would take his time with his recruitment. He visited Ohio State in the fall and Oklahoma State here a few weekends ago. The five-star big man's high school season just finished and he has three visits left that he can take and places like Arizona, Duke, Kentucky, Kansas and Texas are under consideration for official visits. Also, given his recent unofficial to SMU, we have to give the Mustangs more consideration. Turner and his family haven't been giving out many hints either.

However, the grapevine is active with chatter regarding where Turner may be leaning towards. For most of the winter, the chatter has focused on the Longhorns, Jayhawks and Cowboys while Larry Brown and the Mustangs hung around just outside that group. In the last couple of weeks, SMU seems to have replaced Oklahoma State in getting the most talk. Texas gets a lot of run because of proximity to home and a lineup that has a nice spot for him in the frontcourt -- especially with Texas showing that they can play Jonathan Holmes as a three. Kansas has obviously become well known for developing big men but Turner wants to see whether or not freshman Joel Embiid will return. If Turner decides previous to Embiid making his intentions clear (even if only privately to the Kansas staff) then it could be tough for the Jayhawks.

I expect that we will see visits set up soon. For now though, based on what I've been hearing, Texas looks to be in the best position.