next year....

[Pony_Fan]

But, I just don't see why we wouldn't try to build relationships with the Texas coaches.

I am sure he is trying - just getting outrecruited by everyone else...especially by Drew and Gillespie. Facilities do help regardless of what you think.

Winning couldn't hurt either. Nothing like visiting a school when 1,000 people are in a brand new 15,000 seat arena.

It is not facilities. Before we even discuss new facilities, we should change our athletic model and find coaches who can win games. That way, when they are built, they will be filled.

Do any of you remember the recruiting expectations that Ford promised? Without changes to the model, nothing has changed.

Y'all can drink the facilities kool-aid, but I will stick to advocating for things that will actually help us win.

Facilities is part of it, of course every person on this board is in favor of model changes - that goes without saying.

I guess you'd be happy playing in Ownby Stadium...time to build now...you want to wait another 10 yrs and then really be in a hole? Who said anything about building a 15K stadium?

[Hoop Fan]

now we are back to the players don't like the coach thing again? First they didnt like Shumate. Big noise about that. Then they hated Dement. That was a dull roar on this board. Now, no one likes Tubbs. Well, some players dont like to have their arses busted in practice. And when you don't win, the carping and finger pointing begins. Guys get frustrated and look to push back on the head coach pushing them, no matter who that is. Outside the lockerroom the haters start lining up. Its all so predictable and it gets old. Start winning and people will start having fun again. Its simple. We won't win until we get the right mix of talent on the floor with experience. That means shooters, defenders, rebounders and ball handlers. Dement left a roster with no identity. No strengths as a unit. That wont change overnight and there will be frustration.

[Hoop Fan]

[Facilities is part of it, of course every person on this board is in favor of model changes - that goes without saying.

I guess you'd be happy playing in Ownby Stadium...time to build now...you want to wait another 10 yrs and then really be in a hole? Who said anything about building a 15K stadium?

of course facilities are part of it, a big part. apparently some people can only see things in black and white. Everything is two dimensional to these people. You cant make a point to them without them reading what they want to read and ignoring the rest.

[Mexmustang]

tic, tic, tic, tic, tic....tubbs!

[McClown27]

of course facilities are part of it, a big part. apparently some people can only see things in black and white. Everything is two dimensional to these people. You cant make a point to them without them reading what they want to read and ignoring the rest.

I hear yeah, the two dimensional thinking on this board has gotten out of hand. Can you imagine the disaster a new basketball arena would bring without changes to the model? Especially now with the rise of the mid-majors, SMU should be able to make the tournament with comparable or better facilties than all of those programs.

Of course schools like UNC, UCONN, and Kentucky have great facilities. They also win and have a great tradition. Simply building facilities will not bring us that kind of success, like most of you apparently think. That kind of thinking got us an empty football stadium 5 or 6 Saturdays every fall. Having a new facility will not get us T.J. Ford or even Brian Boddicker. The football team sure wasn't in on Matthew Stafford, even with Ford. AbeZontar has repeatedly expressed the sentiment that with new facilities, "one and done" players will likely come to SMU. Based on our tradition and current record, I find that unlikely. Even if one did come, it would likely only have the effect Larry Hughes had at St. Louis University (which was minimal after he left). Schools like Gonzaga, which has built with four year players, are clearly our model for the program.

I am not always against building facilities. However, To avoid some of the pitfalls of Ford, we should simply make significant athletic model changes before we build. Ford has been an unmitigated disaster from an athletic and P.R. perspective. Having 1-3000 people at football games is a recruiting disaster, and the basketball crowds also do not help Tubbs.

[Pony_Fan]

I think everyone agrees we need changes to the model, without that we cannot succeed. Of course building a new facility is not going to solve all our problems or equals instant success - please show me a post that says that. SMU does not have tradition anymore, spirit, or community support, which all needs to change as well.

Ford is a disaster?? Hmmm. Without Ford we would either be playing in Ownby or the Cotton Bowl. Talk about a disaster.

[McClown27]

I think everyone agrees we need changes to the model, without that we cannot succeed. Of course building a new facility is not going to solve all our problems or equals instant success - please show me a post that says that. SMU does not have tradition anymore, spirit, or community support, which all needs to change as well.

Ford is a disaster?? Hmmm. Without Ford we would either be playing in Ownby or the Cotton Bowl. Talk about a disaster.

Unlike basketball, we did truly need a new football stadium. I agree with you. However, the opening of Ford shows we need to make changes to the model and have a stable coaching staff BEFORE we open another new facility. Otherwise, a new facility will not help recruiting or attendance. The lessons of the Ford experience should inform any new facility decision. Some of you may have forgotten the rhetoric that went with Ford's opening, as we were supposed to be getting top 40 recruiting classes. I think we were in the high 70's this year, ask Stallion about it.

[EastStang]

FriarWolf comes on and states unequivocally that the players don't like Tubbs or any of his assistants. He states he is not a student, but won't say how he knows these facts so clearly. So, you can take his statements for what they're worth. I suspect a good number of players hated Bobby Knight, too, but he usually got them to win or they left the program. And if any player is telling is peers to stay away from SMU, then that player should be kicked off the team or put so far at the end of the bench that he nevers sees court time again. Because any player that selfish is not a team player anyway and won't help us improve in the near future.

[Hoop Fan]

I think the Fri-Guy has said before that he has a son that plays in high school AAU circles. He hears things i'm sure. But Friar also has admitted that tubbs wasnt his choice from the start. Kind of clouds things. I am sure there are negative things said out there about tubbs, just like there are about nearly all coaches. its the blanket statements that are hard to deal with. Its not hard for me to believe there is frustration within the team that manifests itself in various ways. tubbs needs to work through that.

[mrydel]

When a player is recruited, he develops a relationship with either the coach that recruited him, the head coach, or both. When the coach is subsequently fired, some of them will feel like their mentor has been mistreated and will in turn dislike the replacement. This is not uncommon and actually is more often the case. In time, some of the players will adjust, some will not. When Tubbs has all of his kids in place, the amount of hate will shift to "like" or at least to respect.

[friarwolf]

Hooper, you sum things up quite nicely with one small item. I have also mentioned that I reconciled myself to Tubbs being the coach and was willing to give him a chance. I thought he was maybe going to be ok his first year when he busted Hopkins' butt and looked like he was going to make some changes around here.

Unfortunately, where I stand, I don' see any progress on any fronts since his initial burst. Recruiting looks to be down, on court performance is down, attitudes are down, NCAA sniffing around both here and Oklahoma and Tubbs is crying to the media about "where is my extension"...............It doesn't get me excited to say let's give this guy another 4 years.......

Tubbs was in Oklahoma for what, 2 years. How many local area studs did he deliver to OU? Think maybe Sampson realized Tubbs was "old news" and was losing his local coaching contacts and thus Sampson really put the selling hat on to move him back to SMU????? Just a thought....................

[Hoop Fan]

why would Sampson do that? He could easily just not renew the contract of an assistant anytime he chose with virtually no fanfare or notice from anybody. The cost of buying out an assistant would be nothing to OU. Happens all the time. It is absurd to think Sampson would "sell" tubbs back us just to get rid of him. I know you don't like tubbs and reasonable people can disagree, but c'mon.

[friarwolf]

Quite a few people worry about the Dallas coaches turning on SMU if we were to do anything to Tubbs. Maybe Sampson felt the same way............

[Hoop Fan]

There is a big contradiction in there. So, Dallas coaches care enough about Tubbs that they will blackball anyone who either fails to hire tubbs when they should or fire tubbs when they shouldn't, however they do not try to get their players to consider signing with Tubbs? Seems to me that if you believe Sampson feared reprisal from Dallas coaches, they must support tubbs and want to help him. Maybe SMU is the problem in attracting local blue chips, not Tubbs.

[McClown27]

Friarwolf,

Tubbs got the SMU job because he recruited Hopkins, Sasser, Davis, etc. for Dement. That is why he also got the job at OU as an assistant. Hoop Fan is right, Sampson didn't have to sell Tubbs hard to Copeland. Everyone at SMU (Copeland, etc.) already knew Tubbs and found him worthy.

It is also does not make a lot of sense. People don't vouch for people they don't like to get jobs, it reflects poorly on them.

As for me, Tubbs gets one more year. I would love to make a run at Jeff Ruland of Iona, Bobby Gonzales of Manhatten, Brad Brownell of UNC WIlmington, or one of the West Virginia assistants.