Local Recruiting

[mustangxc]

I was one of the few that defended hopkins around here, and one of the few who saw him play in high school and knew how much the injury he sustained changed him as a player. That was really unlucky for us because he never had the same explosion again.

I have never criticized Doh or any coach who is hired in April or May to bring in a good recruiting class that year. but thats exactly the point I argued with folks when Tubbs took over. People have a double standard about that though. Tubbs brought in Ike that spring. not a horrible pickup. Doh brought Spencer in. Now, nothing against Spencer, but he is absolutely buried on the bench behind freshman right now. That is not good. What Doherty clearly should have done that spring is sign a juco, or attract a quality transfer that would have become eligible this year. That is something Doherty could have done and should have done so that we were not in this position right now. And fought to keep Dez from going to North Texas. We would be 8-2 right now with an Ike type player and Dez. The freshman would still be getting plenty of time and probably would have more confidence with some more experience around them. Bottom line for me is everybody had drunk the kool aid and given Doh a pass when the truth is he has made a couple mistakes himself that have directly led to unnecessary losses to some very bad teams in my view. Yes, we have the young excuse, but these losses still hurt the program very badly.

Agree!

[George S. Patton]

I don't think it is breaking news to say that these losses to these podunk teams hurt.

Yes, it hurts. But the only we can do now is see what happens next weekend. I didn't agree with Doherty pulling the ball out so early with a 10-point lead against TCU. That led to bad shot selection and too much tentativeness.

As for Ike, I know one person who told me that Jimmy said that he should have never recruited Ike because Ike couldn't play. And then Ike comes up with a season like 06-07? Is that coaching? That's up to you to decide.

But you can't tell something didn't click after averaging 3-5 points under Jimmy in his junior year and double figures in his senior.

For Spencer, I think you are reaching for something there. Remember, Doherty didn't have to take anyone. Maybe he thought Cameron could do something. But I can see where Cameron can give you 10-12 minutes in a role. And there's nothing wrong with that.

As for Dez, I like him personally. But there's a reason he's with his third Division I program in his career.

I just love it when people act like they are the smarter ones because they knew better than to jump on board because they wanted to sit in the stands with their arms folded holding a wicked look and say, "All right guy, I know a lot about basketball, show me something.'' And then when it goes bad, you guys immediately beat your chest and point the finger with the "I told you so attitude.''

This program has a long way to go. And it needs someone to be visible to get people interested in it. Ws and Ls will determine any coaches fate, but based on what where it has slid, there was no way Tubbs could foster that. Doherty can.

And there is always the theory floating out there that the Crum Center would have never happened had Tubbs remained here.

Ugly as that sounds, think about that.

[Hoop Fan]

patton, you are funny. I haven't said 1/100th of the critical stuff about Doherty as you have said about Tubbs. Talk about a bunch of arm chair coaching. You said more negative about tubbs in one paragraph than i have ever said about doh. Just keeping it real about Dement and Tubbs. And I am not the one reaching on the Spencer comment. If you can't see the spencer point for what it is right now, your just arguing to argue. We are a team half full of deer in the headlight freshmen, and doh's first recruit can't get off the pine as a sophomore.

As for Ike, maybe he just adjusted to the speed of the D-1 game in his second year. Or maybe its only Doh's guys that deserve time to improve and develop. LOL.

[angryfan04]

Since Ike played well it is because of Doh, but Spencer not doing anything is because of Tubbs. Why? It is just the hype that Doh brings brings......pure hype.....

[Pony81]

Let's remember the conference affiliations during our coaches' tenures:

Dement and Tubbs did their best recuiting while SMU was still part of the SWC.
Tubbs got BHop because they offered his twin a scholarship. He was set to go to Texas but Texas wouldn't offer a 1 for the price of 2.

I remember when Tubbs was hired - all the DISD coaches were at the press conference pledging to send their best players to SMU.
How many did we get - zero.
Why? - we can't compete against major programs - who ever the coach is.

Doh is doing the right thing. Get the best talent whereever he can find it. Then win with the talent. Then you will find DISD kids to be receptive.

Face it - SMU has a terrible local reputation. We are seen as a doormat. In California or point far away we are another private school with pretty girls.

[mustangxc]

patton, you are funny. I haven't said 1/100th of the critical stuff about Doherty as you have said about Tubbs. Talk about a bunch of arm chair coaching. You said more negative about tubbs in one paragraph than i have ever said about doh. Just keeping it real about Dement and Tubbs. And I am not the one reaching on the Spencer comment. If you can't see the spencer point for what it is right now, your just arguing to argue. We are a team half full of deer in the headlight freshmen, and doh's first recruit can't get off the pine as a sophomore.

As for Ike, maybe he just adjusted to the speed of the D-1 game in his second year. Or maybe its only Doh's guys that deserve time to improve and develop. LOL.

Jimmy Tubbs had Ike for two seasons and Doherty had him for one season, so you're argument is flawed.

[Hoop Fan]

patton, you are funny. I haven't said 1/100th of the critical stuff about Doherty as you have said about Tubbs. Talk about a bunch of arm chair coaching. You said more negative about tubbs in one paragraph than i have ever said about doh. Just keeping it real about Dement and Tubbs. And I am not the one reaching on the Spencer comment. If you can't see the spencer point for what it is right now, your just arguing to argue. We are a team half full of deer in the headlight freshmen, and doh's first recruit can't get off the pine as a sophomore.

As for Ike, maybe he just adjusted to the speed of the D-1 game in his second year. Or maybe its only Doh's guys that deserve time to improve and develop. LOL.

Jimmy Tubbs had Ike for two seasons and Doherty had him for one season, so you're argument is flawed.

I was mostly just kidding, but you are correct about Ike playing 3 seasons. Although it does not prove that Doh is some master or even superior coach. Ike was not counted on as a scorer in his junior year, because our scorer was Hopkins, remember? Still, Ike started half the games as a junior and shot over 56% from the field. Ike had to step up his senior year and to his credit did with more minutes and points per game. He only played 15 mins per game his junior year under tubbs. Probably because Brian Morris was looking promising at the time. Ike averaged 30 minutes his senior year. Why did his field goal percentage drop over 6 points as a senior though? must have been coaching? And I like how you jump to point out a technicality in my comment, but you let ignore a subsequent comment somebody made about Dement and tubbs recruiting in the SWC. wow, now theres a bad memory.

[Hoop Fan]

Since Ike played well it is because of Doh, but Spencer not doing anything is because of Tubbs. Why? It is just the hype that Doh brings brings......pure hype.....

good point. Although i don't think they are blaming tubbs for spencer not doing anything. How could they, Spencer is Doh's recruit, not tubbs. Although they are quick to credit Doh with Ike's emergence as a senior but at the same time seletively ignoring things like Spencer not contributing in a year we are counting on freshman and losing to SC Upstate, and more glaringly how Derrick Roberts has stagnated if not regressed this season and last.

[Hoop Fan]

Let's remember the conference affiliations during our coaches' tenures:

Dement and Tubbs did their best recuiting while SMU was still part of the SWC.
Tubbs got BHop because they offered his twin a scholarship. He was set to go to Texas but Texas wouldn't offer a 1 for the price of 2.

I remember when Tubbs was hired - all the DISD coaches were at the press conference pledging to send their best players to SMU.
How many did we get - zero.
Why? - we can't compete against major programs - who ever the coach is.

Doh is doing the right thing. Get the best talent whereever he can find it. Then win with the talent. Then you will find DISD kids to be receptive.

Face it - SMU has a terrible local reputation. We are seen as a doormat. In California or point far away we are another private school with pretty girls.

Thats a major point, lets remember it accurately. Dement never, never ever coached in the SWC. He was hired after the breakup. He was a WAC guy 100%. SMU's best recruiting came after Dement came and emphasized local recruiting and turned Tubbs loose to do it. As for BHop, ok, we still got him. he didnt go to TCU, Tulsa or Houston like Brokeith Pane now did he? About the DISD coaches, they did not and could not promise to "deliver" kids overnight. Over time, things would have happened to get local kids here. Your last point about SMUs local rep is a good one. Sad, so sad. And whats more sad is we arent doing a thing about it, only making it worse lately.

[Treadway21]

Over time, things would have happened to get local kids here.

That is pure speculation - There is absolutely nothing to support that statement. The same might be said for coach doherty; we don't know as of yet.

I would like to say I am surprised that we are arguing this all over again, but I am not.

[Hoop Fan]

Over time, things would have happened to get local kids here.

That is pure speculation - There is absolutely nothing to support that statement. The same might be said for coach doherty; we don't know as of yet.

I would like to say I am surprised that we are arguing this all over again, but I am not.

nothing to support it except history as an assistant coach. Where did Quinton Ross come from? Hopkins? I didn't say we would be getting the most highly rated players from Dallas automatically, just that over time, good local players would have come this way like they did before. They didn't rush here over night when tubbs was an assistant, as with everything, it happened over time that we got some. And I look forward to Coach Doherty getting some locals from the power programs here. Forget tubbs since you people can't handle the idea, Dement DID IT then. Hell, give Jim Copeland the credit. I don't care who you give credit to, we did it once, now do it again or we will never be the program we could be.

[mustangxc]

In March 1995, Dement left UNC Greensboro to become the head coach at Southern Methodist University. In nine seasons at SMU, Dement recorded a 138-120 mark on the court. His win total is fourth all-time at SMU and is just two wins shy of second. During his tenure, he was able to attract Texas recruits to SMU. In 11 seasons before Dement arrived at SMU, the Mustangs had only 11 Texas natives on their roster. In Dement’s nine seasons, the number jumped to 17, including 15 that were ranked as Top 45 recruits.

http://www.uncgspartans.com/ViewArticle ... LID=189569

I know that is in many ways thanks to Tubbs. I won't ever question his Texas ties. I simply don't think he was head coaching material. Just my opinion. At the same time, once SMU decided to make him our head coach they should have given him the time needed to make things happen. They did not and he got royally screwed, no question about that. What upsets me about your rants HF, is that you seem to want to do the same to Doherty. You don't want to give him a chance and in the end, that will only screw SMU and its fans. We are in the situation we are in because Dement lost momentum, very possibly when he lost Tubbs as an assistant to OU, and then the subsequent hiring and firing of Tubbs after a mere two seasons at the helm. The only thing that will save this program will be a solid head coach with a good reputation and stability at the helm. Doherty brings a good reputation with him, now lets allow for that stability to factor in. Just as you said with Tubbs that the Dallas recruits were not going to come in over night the same holds true for Doherty. Give him a chance to get things rolling with the best recruits willing to come here, wherever they may be from. If he doesn't achieve a sustained improvement each season starting next year, then feel free to attack his strategy.

[Hoop Fan]

XC, i am not arguing with you and i am not even debating tubbs per se. I am arguing that Doherty has not done what he needed to do staff wise, especially on the heels of the tubbs fiasco. He brought Mike Garland here to be lead assistant. He was a Michigan guy who promptly left to go back to michigan. Doh follows that hire up with another Michigan guy in Milton Barnes. May have paid a dividend in Chris Clarke, but is that what we are trying to do now, focus on Michigan? Cmon. Dohs half hearted Texas hire was Lutz, a San Antonio guy who had been at Stephen F for ages. Not a bad hire, just not the statement Doh needed to make and the connection to Dallas we need.

This is my criticism and its a valid one. sorry if people don't like hearing that point of view.

[mustangxc]

XC, i am not arguing with you and i am not even debating tubbs per se. I am arguing that Doherty has not done what he needed to do staff wise, especially on the heels of the tubbs fiasco. He brought Mike Garland here to be lead assistant. He was a Michigan guy who promptly left to go back to michigan. Doh follows that hire up with another Michigan guy in Milton Barnes. May have paid a dividend in Chris Clarke, but is that what we are trying to do now, focus on Michigan? Cmon. Dohs half hearted Texas hire was Lutz, a San Antonio guy who had been at Stephen F for ages. Not a bad hire, just not the statement Doh needed to make and the connection to Dallas we need.

This is my criticism and its a valid one. sorry if people don't like hearing that point of view.

Ok, I agree with that!

[SMU89]

Hoop Fan,

I'm not up on BBall.

Sounds like you definitely are and should send your resume to Orsini and / or Doh.

Don't waste all of your knowledge enlightening us.

Enlighten Doh and the team.