Time for New Leadership - Who is your new coach and why?

[MustangIcon]

Jimmy Tubbs - 2 years at SMU
27-30 overall - 47%
13-19 conference (9-9 in his first year) - 40%
1-2 in conference tourney games - 33%

Matt Doherty - almost 3 years at SMU
31-54 overall - 36%
8-35 conference - 18%
0-2 in conference tourney games - 0%

Let's also compare the inherrited rosters. Here was each coach's first 7 in year 1. It is my opinion Tubbs walked into a much better roster than Doherty.

Tubbs- 2003/2004 Season
Castro, Sr. (10 ppg, 6 reb, 2 asts previous season)
Simpson, Sr. (11 ppg, 6 reb, 1 asst)
Isham, Sr. (8 ppg, 3 reb, 2 assts)
Hopkins, Jr. (18 ppg, 4 reb, 4 assts)
Roberts, Fr. (Committed under Dement, top 5a scorer in Houston)
Pearson, So. (3 ppg, 3 reb, in 12 min)
Rack, So. (2 ppg, 2 reb, in 9 min)

Doherty- 2005/2006 Season
Fall, So. (6ppg, 4 reb)
Ike O, Sr. (4ppg, 3 reb, 1 asst)
Pearson, Sr. (11ppg, 8 reb, 1 asst)
D-Rob, Jr. (11 p, 4 r, 2 a)
Dez, Jr. (10 p, 2 r, 3 a)
Rack, Sr. (6 p, 5 r, 1 a)
Killen, Jr. ( 2 p, 1 r, 2 a in 14 min)

Notice both coaches had their best years when their rosters had significant contributions from a Senior class. We should be much more competitive next season with Faye and Williams as Seniors, and some continuity among our returning soon to be Jr.s and Sophs.

[RGV Pony]

so Doh inherited a 7 footer with a chance to break the school record for blocked shots, a player who would've started at UNC/Notre Dame in Ike (per Doh), and a Big XII transfer in Dez.

Tubbs inherited a 75% Bhop, Derrick Roberts who never could score in college like in HS, and a team that had quit on its coach the year before.

Guess it depends on perspective.

[LA_Mustang]

Let's also compare the inherrited rosters. Here was each coach's first 7 in year 1. It is my opinion Tubbs walked into a much better roster than Doherty.

Tubbs- 2003/2004 Season
Castro, Sr. (10 ppg, 6 reb, 2 asts previous season)
Simpson, Sr. (11 ppg, 6 reb, 1 asst)
Isham, Sr. (8 ppg, 3 reb, 2 assts)
Hopkins, Jr. (18 ppg, 4 reb, 4 assts)
Roberts, Fr. (Committed under Dement, top 5a scorer in Houston)
Pearson, So. (3 ppg, 3 reb, in 12 min)
Rack, So. (2 ppg, 2 reb, in 9 min)

Doherty- 2005/2006 Season
Fall, So. (6ppg, 4 reb)
Ike O, Sr. (4ppg, 3 reb, 1 asst)
Pearson, Sr. (11ppg, 8 reb, 1 asst)
D-Rob, Jr. (11 p, 4 r, 2 a)
Dez, Jr. (10 p, 2 r, 3 a)
Rack, Sr. (6 p, 5 r, 1 a)
Killen, Jr. ( 2 p, 1 r, 2 a in 14 min)

Notice both coaches had their best years when their rosters had significant contributions from a Senior class. We should be much more competitive next season with Faye and Williams as Seniors, and some continuity among our returning soon to be Jr.s and Sophs.

I think it is a stretch to say Tubbs inherited a much better roster than Doherty. Yes, Tubbs had a few nice roll players as seniors - Castro, Simpson and Isham.....but I think Doherty had comparable talent at those positions: Castro - Rack, Simpson - Pearson, Isham - Roberts. Doherty also had a very good shot blocking presence in Fall (which Tubbs didn't), a good floor leader in Killen (of course, Tubbs had Hop) and a nice scoring option with Ike. but overall I would say the talent level was similar.

Bottom line is three years in with Doherty and we are looking at the worst record since the SWC days in a league that is not very good.

[Pony_Fan]

yea but he blogs and has a radio show

[smitty329]

Finally made it to a game last night - travel and family have kept me away. If my memory serves me, we had 33 points with 7 minutes to go in the first half, 35 with 5, and 38 at the half. Team seemed to move the ball well and hit their shots - then Doh started subbing. Two in two out. Two more in two more out. No fluidity resulting in 5 points in the last 7 minutes. Of the 13 players dressed, 10 saw minutes last night and Harp usually sees time as well. He plays 11 guys? Why?

McCoy is the real deal and we can build around him. Nyakundi has a sweet shot and can drain the 3's. Williams generals well and moves the ball. I was not impressed with Faye. Doesn't have the ability to drive and threw up some horrible shots. I would prefer to see someone who can rebound, distribute the ball better, and power to the basket at center rather than someone who can provde 2.7 blocks per game to go along with his 4 turnovers - Bamba has no post move.

[Jumpshooter]

btw, Brad Brownell at Wright St would be a GREAT coach. In 07 he led WSU to the NCAA tourney for the first time since 1993 (does that year sound familiar?) and last year when they were picked to finish near the bottom of the Horizon League they finished 2nd with 21 wins. This year they are 17-11. Prior to WSU he spent four years at UNC Wilmington where he went 83-40 with 2 NCAA tourney appearances. He is only 40

Brownell is a good gameday coach but can't recruit. He won at UNC Wilmington with inherited players. He left that program a mess because of his lack of recruiting. He inherited league player of the year, his first year at Wright State. He has built up a nice resume but has never won with players he recruited.

This thread is non-sense anyway, as Doh will be back for year four. Hope he does better than years 1-3.

[RGV Pony]

He plays 11 guys? Why?

a big thing we need to cure doh of is that a) we arent UNC and b) as such, he can't-and shouldnt-try to be Dean Smith with wholesale subs in/out all game long

[mr. pony]

I know Dean Smith. Dean Smith is a friend of mine. (You know the rest.)

[ALEX LIFESON]

I think that is a tape loop, running non-stop with NC references. Please make it stop!

[smupony]

Let's also compare the inherrited rosters. Here was each coach's first 7 in year 1. It is my opinion Tubbs walked into a much better roster than Doherty.

Tubbs- 2003/2004 Season
Castro, Sr. (10 ppg, 6 reb, 2 asts previous season)
Simpson, Sr. (11 ppg, 6 reb, 1 asst)
Isham, Sr. (8 ppg, 3 reb, 2 assts)
Hopkins, Jr. (18 ppg, 4 reb, 4 assts)
Roberts, Fr. (Committed under Dement, top 5a scorer in Houston)
Pearson, So. (3 ppg, 3 reb, in 12 min)
Rack, So. (2 ppg, 2 reb, in 9 min)

Doherty- 2005/2006 Season
Fall, So. (6ppg, 4 reb)
Ike O, Sr. (4ppg, 3 reb, 1 asst)
Pearson, Sr. (11ppg, 8 reb, 1 asst)
D-Rob, Jr. (11 p, 4 r, 2 a)
Dez, Jr. (10 p, 2 r, 3 a)
Rack, Sr. (6 p, 5 r, 1 a)
Killen, Jr. ( 2 p, 1 r, 2 a in 14 min)

Notice both coaches had their best years when their rosters had significant contributions from a Senior class. We should be much more competitive next season with Faye and Williams as Seniors, and some continuity among our returning soon to be Jr.s and Sophs.

I think it is a stretch to say Tubbs inherited a much better roster than Doherty. Yes, Tubbs had a few nice roll players as seniors - Castro, Simpson and Isham.....but I think Doherty had comparable talent at those positions: Castro - Rack, Simpson - Pearson, Isham - Roberts. Doherty also had a very good shot blocking presence in Fall (which Tubbs didn't), a good floor leader in Killen (of course, Tubbs had Hop) and a nice scoring option with Ike. but overall I would say the talent level was similar.

Bottom line is three years in with Doherty and we are looking at the worst record since the SWC days in a league that is not very good.

I don't think you can compare those players. Especially Simpson and Pearson. Simpson was a true low post player and Pearson roamed the perimeter more frequently.

Simpson and Castro were a good combination and a better playing pair than Rack and Pearson.

We really miss that duo on the floor. A true low post presence.

[MustangIcon]

I think it is a stretch to say Tubbs inherited a much better roster than Doherty. Yes, Tubbs had a few nice roll players as seniors - Castro, Simpson and Isham.....but I think Doherty had comparable talent at those positions: Castro - Rack, Simpson - Pearson, Isham - Roberts. Doherty also had a very good shot blocking presence in Fall (which Tubbs didn't), a good floor leader in Killen (of course, Tubbs had Hop) and a nice scoring option with Ike. but overall I would say the talent level was similar.

Bottom line is three years in with Doherty and we are looking at the worst record since the SWC days in a league that is not very good.

I agree completely with your final comment, which I have bolded. However, I cannot agree with your assessment of the rosters.

1. Simpson was a 3 year starter who averaged 10+ pts and 6+ boards and more than 1 block over his first 3 seasons. Castro was a 2.5 year starter who averaged between 9 and 10 ppg his Soph and Jr years along with 6+ boards per season and shooting well over 50%. Those guys were not ROLE players they were the foundation of the team.

2. A nice scoring option in Ike? After the new staff helped transform him you mean. After transfering from JUCO asfter his frosh year, Ike averaged less than 1ppg as a Soph and under 4ppg as a Junior. You have to talk in terms of what they inheritted, and Ike was a spare until Doherty got on campus.

3. A Soph putting up 18/4/4 is not someone that you can just mention in passing. Hop was the best player, BY FAR, that either coach had when they arrived. And it isn'e even close. You attempt to glaze over Hop by barely mentioning him and referncing him as a floor leader liken to Killen. Speaking of Killen...

4. Anyone who saw Killen play his first 2 seasons before Doh got to campus will tell you his game and performance was strikingly similar to, and probably worse than, that of the much maligned Ryan Harp. Killen couldn't handle the ball under pressure, couldn't shoot worth a lick, hustled a lot, and in general was a liability on the offensive side of the ball. His career average after his first 2 years was 2/1/1 in 13 min per game. Doherty didn't inherit a good floor leader in Jon Killen, he developed a good floor leader out of Killen.

[redpony]

This thread is non-sense anyway, as Doh will be back for year four. Hope he does better than years 1-3.

Sadly, I have to agree. When are people going to wake up and realize that our substandard coaching is a result of our AD- Mr. mob boss. He has simply refused to do anything to move our athletic programs into the 'top 25' as he promised.
I am suprised and disappointed that organizations such as the Mustang Club continue to support an AD who has only one 'claim to fame' at SMU- is the hiring of June Jones. Meanwhile, the basketball, men's soccer, women's soccer and volleyball continue to or have fallen into complete disarray and failure. Perhaps if these organizations would start putting some pressure on the University administation to force some changes we could move ahead with coaches that can actually coach.

[LA_Mustang]

I agree completely with your final comment, which I have bolded. However, I cannot agree with your assessment of the rosters.

1. Simpson was a 3 year starter who averaged 10+ pts and 6+ boards and more than 1 block over his first 3 seasons. Castro was a 2.5 year starter who averaged between 9 and 10 ppg his Soph and Jr years along with 6+ boards per season and shooting well over 50%. Those guys were not ROLE players they were the foundation of the team.

2. A nice scoring option in Ike? After the new staff helped transform him you mean. After transfering from JUCO asfter his frosh year, Ike averaged less than 1ppg as a Soph and under 4ppg as a Junior. You have to talk in terms of what they inheritted, and Ike was a spare until Doherty got on campus.

3. A Soph putting up 18/4/4 is not someone that you can just mention in passing. Hop was the best player, BY FAR, that either coach had when they arrived. And it isn'e even close. You attempt to glaze over Hop by barely mentioning him and referncing him as a floor leader liken to Killen. Speaking of Killen...

4. Anyone who saw Killen play his first 2 seasons before Doh got to campus will tell you his game and performance was strikingly similar to, and probably worse than, that of the much maligned Ryan Harp. Killen couldn't handle the ball under pressure, couldn't shoot worth a lick, hustled a lot, and in general was a liability on the offensive side of the ball. His career average after his first 2 years was 2/1/1 in 13 min per game. Doherty didn't inherit a good floor leader in Jon Killen, he developed a good floor leader out of Killen.

1. Pearson averaged 10 pts and 7 boards a game his soph-senior years and finished 15th all-time in rebounds and 16th all-time in steals for SMU. Numbers wise he was almost identical to Simpson. Roberts averaged 9 pts a game in his four years at SMU - Justin Isham averaged 7 pts a game in four years. I'll give you Castro - he was a solid, underrated player for us.

2 & 4. Doherty does deserve credit for showing confidence in Ike and Killen....but there were also players who showed big improvements when Tubbs arrived - Pearson and Castro in particular.

3. The reason I didn't say much about Hop is because we all know he was never at full strength at SMU - RGV said 75% and I would agree with that but 75% of Hop was still pretty good.

We will just have to agree to disagree...I think the talent level was similar for both coaches

[papawasamustang]

http://www.ncaabbs.com/showthread.php?tid=346444


I ran across this today.
Comments from the CUSA board about Coach Doherty.

[LA_Mustang]

http://www.ncaabbs.com/showthread.php?tid=346444


I ran across this today.
Comments from the CUSA board about Coach Doherty.

very interesting thread.....thanks for posting, papa