SMU to Big East - ramifications for bball

[hoopmanx]

SMU is playing within the letter and SPIRIT of the rules and close to the bottom of the NCAA's very low admission standards. We can compete under those standards

lol, nobody in hoops plays w/in the SPIRIT of the rules. If you do, you're at a disadvantage. You say we can compete under those standards, our recruiting coordinators disagree.

[Stallion]

I'm looking through Baylor's commitment list since Drew got there-checked back to 2005-I don't see a single player from one of diploma mills you mentioned-care to name a recruit-I could have missed a guy not listed by the recruiting service

[Stallion]

SMU is playing within the letter and SPIRIT of the rules and close to the bottom of the NCAA's very low admission standards. We can compete under those standards

lol, nobody in hoops plays w/in the SPIRIT of the rules. If you do, you're at a disadvantage. You say we can compete under those standards, our recruiting coordinators disagree.

Then if you aren't willing to play within the SPIRIT of NCAA rules then you probably ought to stay away from the program

[that's great raplh]

We don't have the infrastructure in place, see admin, admissions, majors, to compete at a high level in the Big East in hoops. This isn't just me, it's several ex-assistants who scoff at the notion. The Big East as a conference, routinely recruits kids that we just haven't been able to touch in 30 years. The prospect pool in hoops is a very different demographic, even profile, than football.

Currently, we aren't allowed to get after kids w/6 schools in 4 years, and a paid transcript from a diploma mill, who had someone sit for him at standardized tests. A police record for street cred always helps etc. That's Big East recruiting. These kids aren't held to any academic standard once in school either.

I'm all for upgrading competition, but we have one hand tied behind our back in Big East hoops.

Huh? Georgetown can't do this.

[hoopmanx]

We don't have the infrastructure in place, see admin, admissions, majors, to compete at a high level in the Big East in hoops. This isn't just me, it's several ex-assistants who scoff at the notion. The Big East as a conference, routinely recruits kids that we just haven't been able to touch in 30 years. The prospect pool in hoops is a very different demographic, even profile, than football.

Currently, we aren't allowed to get after kids w/6 schools in 4 years, and a paid transcript from a diploma mill, who had someone sit for him at standardized tests. A police record for street cred always helps etc. That's Big East recruiting. These kids aren't held to any academic standard once in school either.

I'm all for upgrading competition, but we have one hand tied behind our back in Big East hoops.

Huh? Georgetown can't do this.

Gtown has done it since the early 80s. Its not up for debate. They have one of the worst disparities between program & university of any school in America, and it's on the books. JT3 took freakin Jordan Goodman just this past year, before he bolted w/Assaults assistant for Rutgers, only to renege and go to Texas Tech lol. Don't foget Moses Ayegba's on the roster, as well as a slew of other kids SMU wouldn't recruit.

[hoopmanx]

I'm looking through Baylor's commitment list since Drew got there-checked back to 2005-I don't see a single player from one of diploma mills you mentioned-care to name a recruit-I could have missed a guy not listed by the recruiting service

Stargell Love, Quincy Miller and Deuce Bello, and that's just the last two years. All spent a majority of their high school career at a diploma mill. Ask Lutz, SMU wanted to recruit Love, but QEA straight told SMU they couldn't see the transcript till spring and when the transcript would be 'fixed', but that everything would be ok. Lutz & I shared a really good laugh about it at the time.

On top of that, all those kids are handled by John Wall's agent, whose brother Dwon Clifton, got the ops job at Baylor. When the heat came down around Clifton/Wall, Wall dropped Baylor, but paid Baylor back w/Love first, and then Q & Deuce.

You just have no idea what goes on in hoops or why

[hoopmanx]

SMU is playing within the letter and SPIRIT of the rules and close to the bottom of the NCAA's very low admission standards. We can compete under those standards

lol, nobody in hoops plays w/in the SPIRIT of the rules. If you do, you're at a disadvantage. You say we can compete under those standards, our recruiting coordinators disagree.

Then if you aren't willing to play within the SPIRIT of NCAA rules then you probably ought to stay away from the program

That's cute, but let's be real. You have no idea IF we recruit w/in the spirit of the rules now. I do. My job is to be around certain programs, and I really like my job.

The bigger question is why won't you address what our rc's think? Don't you find it troublesome that our recruit coordinators think that AQ conference in hoops is a joke? What about Hobbie & Pooh who just came from Houston & A&M respectively. Think they feel like SMU can recruit all the same kids as those schools?

[Dutch]

the basketball angle will generally help the university brand if we get an all sport invite (which i'm assuming).

if we can get dallas basketball fans out to watch these BEast teams, become fans of SMU basketball, they'll convert to football too.

this could be very big for the whole university.

[MustangSTATS]

So for SMU to "compete" in basketball we need to take kids from diploma mills that are ill prepared for a college education, accept that they are not even taking their own SAT/ACT test, push them into worthless sham majors, and force them out if they don't produce on court. Why would SMU want its name anywhere near this type of system. I'd rather SMU drop basketball than so horrendously openly exploit kids and degrade the academic integrity of my and others' degrees. We can raise 3/4 a billion for capital improvements, why degrade our school for hoping to make a slim profit in basketball?

I am all for sports and giving students a chance to obtain a degree that wouldn't otherwise have it, but this wouldn't be giving anyone a chance. If this is what college basketball is, they should just pay the players a minor league salary and end the sham of scholarships and education.

[hoopmanx]

So for SMU to "compete" in basketball we need to take kids from diploma mills that are ill prepared for a college education, accept that they are not even taking their own SAT/ACT test, push them into worthless sham majors, and force them out if they don't produce on court. Why would SMU want its name anywhere near this type of system. I'd rather SMU drop basketball than so horrendously openly exploit kids and degrade the academic integrity of my and others' degrees. We can raise 3/4 a billion for capital improvements, why degrade our school for hoping to make a slim profit in basketball?

I am all for sports and giving students a chance to obtain a degree that wouldn't otherwise have it, but this wouldn't be giving anyone a chance. If this is what college basketball is, they should just pay the players a minor league salary and end the sham of scholarships and education.

I understand outrage, especially if you didn't see the reality of college basketball before. Basketball isn't a sport, it's an industry & culture. About the last thing that matters in that industry/culture is academia. Its a necessary evil in the current system, nothing more.

We have Blaise Mbargorba on campus this weekend. His last visit was to Va Tech, where his primary recruiter is Rob Ehsan. Knowing Rob well, part of his sell as of August was great faciilities, no workload in the class room. Its the state of the sport. There are real pro's to the current system as well, but that's for another time

[Stallion]

Westchester Country Day is a legitimate private school in operation for over 44 years with lower school, middle school and high school-that's not what we are talking about when we are talking about diploma mills

http://www.westchestercds.org/netcommun ... px?pid=264

[Stallion]

NCAA List of Unapproved Diploma Mills which can no longer be used for NCAA qualification-includes God's Academy. Further I fully support SMU denying admission from any school that SMU itself considers a diploma mill.

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/pub ... gh+Schools

[hoopmanx]

Westchester Country Day is a legitimate private school in operation for over 44 years with lower school, middle school and high school-that's not what we are talking about when we are talking about diploma mills

http://www.westchestercds.org/netcommun ... px?pid=264

Westchester isn't the school in question, it's QEA and others. All the kids mentioned, jumped from program to program, several on the watch list. Furthermore, giving the NCAA list of diploma mills is rich. That list is vintage NCAA, 5-10 years late. The issue is cooking transcripts, not actual strip mall degrees. Who do you think coaches/handlers go to?

The fact that you are arguing the legitimacy of Q Miller, Stargell Love & Deuce Bello is beyond funny. The entire basketball world acknowledges it stinks, and you're arguing just to be a blowhard. These kids are placed where their scores are more or less guaranteed. Arlington Country Day houses all of DC Assaults kids.. Beautiful school, elite private, hoops kids don't do anything. Torian Graham is there right now, Baylor is all over him, as is Maryland etc. This is his 5th school, I believe. He's there b/c he has a 1.6 or so, and they need to bump it fast. Funny, that reminds me of another kid whom I was told we couldn't recruit locally, Jherrod stiggers. Apparently, he was in the 1.4 range heading into his senior year.

[PoconoPony]

Somehow, Doh recruited effectively for Notre Dame in the BE. He knows what he's getting into. Georgetown has really had to work hard to deal with recruiting and admissions issues. They have a direct line into the DC/Baltimore Catholic leagues where most of the talent is. These schools are not diploma mills and the kids who come out of them are college ready. Georgetown has at most one or two special admissions (think Allen Iverson) each year. Roy Hibbart went to Georgetown Prep which is a solid school academically which has a pipeline to the CYO leagues around DC. They have kids on their roster from DeMatha, Mt. St. Josephs, Seton Hall Prep, Georgetown Prep and Bishop O'Connell. All solid Catholic schools.

LOL, It's not just a case of Doh knows what's up, just recruit better. Doh doesn't have the same support here that he had at Notre Dame, and that's the issue, and what has to change. The coaches here complain about even playing field, how small the prospect pool is, b/c of kids they can't recruit. Not being able to touch a slew of schools, not just diploma mills. Support in admissions, academic support for the athletes, heavy-handed compliance etc. Our old recruit coordinator went to TCU, just this past off-season. Guess what his take is? The one before that to Creighton, and he's especially animated on the topic. His partner in crime his first few years was associate HC @ another MVC school, and he too says it's night & day. Anyway, these are the people responsible for running the program, and they say we're at a competitive disadvantage.

You can spew that Georgetown stuff on other folks, but I grew up right down the street. You paint an incredibly rosy picture of their recruiting practices over the years. As a private catholic, they can take anyone and mostly do. They have a long history of taking diploma mill kids & no offense, but the WCAC takes cares of athletes.

I recall when they recruited Patric Ewing that his mother publically stated that he needed special tutoring because he could barely read or write based on a learning disability. They not only got him into school, but kept him eligible for 4 years.

[SoCal_Pony]

I recall when they recruited Patric Ewing that his mother publically stated that he needed special tutoring because he could barely read or write based on a learning disability. They not only got him into school, but kept him eligible for 4 years.

And I think when he left Georgetown 4 years later his reading and writing abilities improved, so I have no problems with these type of players, as long as they are law-abiding.