DMN: SMU recruit loses appeal on letter of intent

[PonyDoh]

PonyDoh, have you ever been on the other side of the fence...working in a NCAA program? The problem with the AAU/Prep School system is that too many of the people involved have no ability to see things from the perspective of a university / coaching staff.

I've never been employed by a university in a basketball position, but grew up very close to programs. I'm not denying there are two sides to the story, just that it doesn't really matter in this case. What exactly is Doh proving by this stand? Dubois isn't going to suit up, and we will hurt ourselves on the trail, to some degree.

[George S. Patton]

PonyDoh, have you ever been on the other side of the fence...working in a NCAA program? The problem with the AAU/Prep School system is that too many of the people involved have no ability to see things from the perspective of a university / coaching staff.

I've never been employed by a university in a basketball position, but grew up very close to programs. I'm not denying there are two sides to the story, just that it doesn't really matter in this case. What exactly is Doh proving by this stand? Dubois isn't going to suit up, and we will hurt ourselves on the trail, to some degree.

What exactly was Dubois proving by not living up to the COMMITMENT he made to this school? And it DOES matter in this case. It matters in every case.

[George S. Patton]

The term 'iced' was invented for situations like this. Treat their kids badly, lose access to their kids. Colleges & coaches are end game, but expendable. Ultimately, they need relationships more then AAUs and preps. Its no different then what has happened at Maryland. Gary Williams doesn't play the game, so the local flagships are starving him. Gary made the mistake of thinking the local state school, in the ACC, was bigger then these programs. Now the program can't recruit locally and dying on the vine, all due to lack of talent

This is a quote in the thread just above this one. I am having trouble reconciling the two. http://www.ponyfans.com/phpBB2/viewtopi ... 7c42fb8407

Maryland seemed a logical venue for one of Vaccaro's pep talks. He's an old pal of Maryland's basketball coach, Gary Williams, and the school's team--which won the ncaa championship in 2002--is stocked with the sort of elite players whom Vaccaro makes it his business to have befriended before they even have drivers' licenses.

That quote couldn't be more wrong. Check Maryland's roster, not a single McD AA on it. Even the national championship team didn't have a McD AA, the first ever, I might add. Vaccaro has never steered a kid to Maryland and DC's biggest flagship, DC Assault, an Adidas AAU, has never sent a kid to the Terps. Team Melo, a Nike flagship out of Baltimore, has sent one kid to Maryland, and thats only b/c his Dad was a lifelong Terp fan. Melo is obviously Big East friendly, see Cuse & Uconn

Melo's done great. UConn couldn't get out of the first round of the tournament and Syracuse hasn't even made the tournament the last two years. Calhoun and Boeheim must feel like they're getting some return on their dealings with those AAU thugs.

[PonyDoh]

The term 'iced' was invented for situations like this. Treat their kids badly, lose access to their kids. Colleges & coaches are end game, but expendable. Ultimately, they need relationships more then AAUs and preps. Its no different then what has happened at Maryland. Gary Williams doesn't play the game, so the local flagships are starving him. Gary made the mistake of thinking the local state school, in the ACC, was bigger then these programs. Now the program can't recruit locally and dying on the vine, all due to lack of talent

This is a quote in the thread just above this one. I am having trouble reconciling the two. http://www.ponyfans.com/phpBB2/viewtopi ... 7c42fb8407

Maryland seemed a logical venue for one of Vaccaro's pep talks. He's an old pal of Maryland's basketball coach, Gary Williams, and the school's team--which won the ncaa championship in 2002--is stocked with the sort of elite players whom Vaccaro makes it his business to have befriended before they even have drivers' licenses.

That quote couldn't be more wrong. Check Maryland's roster, not a single McD AA on it. Even the national championship team didn't have a McD AA, the first ever, I might add. Vaccaro has never steered a kid to Maryland and DC's biggest flagship, DC Assault, an Adidas AAU, has never sent a kid to the Terps. Team Melo, a Nike flagship out of Baltimore, has sent one kid to Maryland, and thats only b/c his Dad was a lifelong Terp fan. Melo is obviously Big East friendly, see Cuse & Uconn

Melo's done great. UConn couldn't get out of the first round of the tournament and Syracuse hasn't even made the tournament the last two years. Calhoun and Boeheim must feel like they're getting some return on their dealings with those AAU thugs.

UConn & Cuse are loaded for the forseeable future, both have National Titles this decade. Cuse should have made the tourney two years ago and will make it this upcoming year. Make a point that doesn't suck, k thx.

[PonyDoh]

PonyDoh, have you ever been on the other side of the fence...working in a NCAA program? The problem with the AAU/Prep School system is that too many of the people involved have no ability to see things from the perspective of a university / coaching staff.

I've never been employed by a university in a basketball position, but grew up very close to programs. I'm not denying there are two sides to the story, just that it doesn't really matter in this case. What exactly is Doh proving by this stand? Dubois isn't going to suit up, and we will hurt ourselves on the trail, to some degree.

What exactly was Dubois proving by not living up to the COMMITMENT he made to this school? And it DOES matter in this case. It matters in every case.

He's saying he doesn't trust the staff. He's 18 & this isn't life & death, just a college choice. What do you want out of Dubois? For him to show up to a school, half way across the country, where the guy who recruited him is gone, and the head coach recruited over him before he stepped on campus? Recruited over him, after telling the family they wouldn't recruit another point in the class.

Why should he live up to his word, when their party line is that Doh didn't live up to his?

[CalallenStang]

What proof is there that Doh actually told DuBois that he wouldn't recruit another PG in the class, other than what Gary DuBois has told the papers?

[PonyDoh]

What proof is there that Doh actually told DuBois that he wouldn't recruit another PG in the class, other than what Gary DuBois has told the papers?

No tangible proof, but MOST schools don't take 2 PGs in the same class, unless one is viewed as a combo. Taking 2 PGs in the same class is a problem waiting to happen. Unfortunately, we had so little talent at the point position on the roster, we had to grab 2. Since one was a juco, we have some separation, which I'm sure Gary Dubois could understand. It's McCoy that became the issue, if you ask me.

[CalallenStang]

What proof is there that Doh actually told DuBois that he wouldn't recruit another PG in the class, other than what Gary DuBois has told the papers?

No tangible proof, but MOST schools don't take 2 PGs in the same class, unless one is viewed as a combo. Taking 2 PGs in the same class is a problem waiting to happen. Unfortunately, we had so little talent at the point position on the roster, we had to grab 2. Since one was a juco, we have some separation, which I'm sure Gary Dubois could understand. It's McCoy that became the issue, if you ask me.

Agreed on all points you made. Still, there's no proof that Doh, or any other current or former member of our coaching staff, made a promise that we would not go after another PG. Further, DuBois could quite possibly be viewed as a combo; we have no clue what the coaching staff told him.

If Irvin told him that we wouldn't go after another PG, then didn't tell any other members of the staff, you can hardly blame the staff for going after another PG after Irvin left for SIU.

My point is - we don't know the whole story. Right now, playing the blame game is pointless. As you have noted, Doh does well with the AAUs, so I'm going to trust his judgment on this one.

I know this may upset you, as you are tied to the AAUs, but it seems to me that the AAU system needs to teach more than just good basketball skills: it needs to teach the responsibilities of commitment. Further, it should prepare the athletes to relish in competition for playing time: competition is only going to push these athletes to improve faster.

[mathman]

What proof is there that Doh actually told DuBois that he wouldn't recruit another PG in the class, other than what Gary DuBois has told the papers?

No tangible proof, but MOST schools don't take 2 PGs in the same class, unless one is viewed as a combo. Taking 2 PGs in the same class is a problem waiting to happen. Unfortunately, we had so little talent at the point position on the roster, we had to grab 2. Since one was a juco, we have some separation, which I'm sure Gary Dubois could understand. It's McCoy that became the issue, if you ask me.

The two point guards UCLA signed were in the top ten in the country. Malcolm Lee was iniatially listed as a PG as well, also in the top ten, but Rivals switched him to SG.

http://rivalshoops.rivals.com/commitlis ... &School=85

[PonyDoh]

What proof is there that Doh actually told DuBois that he wouldn't recruit another PG in the class, other than what Gary DuBois has told the papers?

No tangible proof, but MOST schools don't take 2 PGs in the same class, unless one is viewed as a combo. Taking 2 PGs in the same class is a problem waiting to happen. Unfortunately, we had so little talent at the point position on the roster, we had to grab 2. Since one was a juco, we have some separation, which I'm sure Gary Dubois could understand. It's McCoy that became the issue, if you ask me.

The two point guards UCLA signed were in the top ten in the country. Malcolm Lee was iniatially listed as a PG as well, also in the top ten, but Rivals switched him to SG.

http://rivalshoops.rivals.com/commitlis ... &School=85

Jrue Holiday can play PG or SG, and he's one & done. Also, UCLA is hardly a quality example as every kid in the country wants to attend right now. Sometimes hype is a bigger draw then position, see Memphis.

[PonyDoh]

What proof is there that Doh actually told DuBois that he wouldn't recruit another PG in the class, other than what Gary DuBois has told the papers?

No tangible proof, but MOST schools don't take 2 PGs in the same class, unless one is viewed as a combo. Taking 2 PGs in the same class is a problem waiting to happen. Unfortunately, we had so little talent at the point position on the roster, we had to grab 2. Since one was a juco, we have some separation, which I'm sure Gary Dubois could understand. It's McCoy that became the issue, if you ask me.

Agreed on all points you made. Still, there's no proof that Doh, or any other current or former member of our coaching staff, made a promise that we would not go after another PG. Further, DuBois could quite possibly be viewed as a combo; we have no clue what the coaching staff told him.

If Irvin told him that we wouldn't go after another PG, then didn't tell any other members of the staff, you can hardly blame the staff for going after another PG after Irvin left for SIU.

My point is - we don't know the whole story. Right now, playing the blame game is pointless. As you have noted, Doh does well with the AAUs, so I'm going to trust his judgment on this one.

I know this may upset you, as you are tied to the AAUs, but it seems to me that the AAU system needs to teach more than just good basketball skills: it needs to teach the responsibilities of commitment. Further, it should prepare the athletes to relish in competition for playing time: competition is only going to push these athletes to improve faster.

Here's the thing, the truth doesn't matter. It's about perception, that simple. There will always be two sides to this story, and who knows who is telling the truth. The bottom line is that the Dubois' have a compelling story that makes sense if you look at how many guards we signed and in what order. Whether they were lied to or not doesn't matter, b/c w/o all the info, its easy to make a case that they were. Rumor is wildfire and damaging, the truth will never be known. We stand nothing to gain by holding onto the kid.

[George S. Patton]

What proof is there that Doh actually told DuBois that he wouldn't recruit another PG in the class, other than what Gary DuBois has told the papers?

No tangible proof, but MOST schools don't take 2 PGs in the same class, unless one is viewed as a combo. Taking 2 PGs in the same class is a problem waiting to happen. Unfortunately, we had so little talent at the point position on the roster, we had to grab 2. Since one was a juco, we have some separation, which I'm sure Gary Dubois could understand. It's McCoy that became the issue, if you ask me.

So were we wrong to pursue McCoy?

[ponyman08]

This whole thing is silly. I can picture exactly how this went down. Although I have no proof, I'm sure Dubois' dad asked Doh if he would be recruiting another point guard before he committed. Now when you consider that at the time (early fall 07') we had 2 new guards (Walker, Rhodes) who we thought would be our future backcourt, as well as 4 scollies to give out with 4 verbal commitments (Chris Clarke, Justin Haynes, Frank Otis, and Jared Dubois), I'm sure Coach at the time said something to the effect that he wouldn't because he had already used up all his schollies on the previously mentioned names.

I've heard Chris Clarke is not coming. I've heard Otis is struggling to get into school. I heard that Cameron Spencer is not coming back. I've also heard Bennie Rhodes may not be coming back. Factor in Faye and that leaves us with 3 available scholarships to give out during the spring.

Is Doh not supposed to recruit the best available players? Is he supposed to go look at a kid and say "yeah that kid could really help us, but he's better than Dubois and he might take all of Jared's minutes?" Show me a basketball coach in the country who is not trying to recruit better players than he already possesses and I'll show you a coach who is about to get fired. I also think it's interesting that we don't even know what Jared thinks about the situation. His dad appears to be overbearing and living his life vicariously through his son. Let your son grow up buddy! Sooner or later he'll have to make decisions on his own. Don't ruin his life cuz you live an unfulfilled life of what ifs and now you see your son's life as an opportunity to correct the choices/decisions you did/didn't make when you were 18 years old.

[mathman]

Apparently the most grievous mistake Doh made was in misjudging the kids competitive spirit. I thought the kid was the answer to our PG problems and still think he could be a big part of our climb back to respectability, even with the other PG's we signed.

[CalallenStang]

ponyman08 - if Clarke and Otis aren't on the team, I'll be exceptionally surprised. EXCEPTIONALLY. That would surprise me more than winning the lottery because someone I didn't know bought a lottery ticket, died before the drawing, and had me written into their will as the receiver of the ticket. Get the idea?

Clarke and Otis will be here.

That being said, I don't believe we'll see Spencer or Rhodes, simply based on Doh's entries about the trip to Africa. Especially this one:

http://smumustangs.cstv.com/sports/m-ba ... 18-24.html
Scroll to the May 23 entry at the bottom.