SMU to Big East - ramifications for bball

[Charleston Pony]

As someone who started following SMU hoops in the Doc Hayes era, I just hope we return to the nationally competitive program we had in those days. Big East bball profile can only help

[hoopmanx]

I recall when they recruited Patric Ewing that his mother publically stated that he needed special tutoring because he could barely read or write based on a learning disability. They not only got him into school, but kept him eligible for 4 years.

And I think when he left Georgetown 4 years later his reading and writing abilities improved, so I have no problems with these type of players, as long as they are law-abiding.

Ewing wasn't allowed to talk to media at all by order of John Thompson. When he announced for Gtown in Mass, it was such a big deal it was on TV. Ewing couldn't even hardly say Georgetown much less get admitted. You should hear Mike Jarvis talk on the matter.

That same team had Reggie Williams & Michael Graham, and don't forget Freddie Brown, who to this day campaigns against Gtown's program. Graham couldn't read or write at Gtown. Who could forget Billy Packer shoving a camera in Williams face after they won the title, and him just freezing. Could get a syllable out, until Packer said something like 'its ok Reggie, big moment'.

The entire program has flown in the face of the school's mission statement for decades, but everyone was too afraid of Big John to say anything. No white kids on the roster for almost 20 years, while the student body is white on white. Meanwhile he crusades against Prop 48, when nobody at Gtown should even by affected by the rule. Let's not forget JT being on the board at Nike, and using that influence to grab kids like Alonzo Mourning etc. LOL@ Victor Page.

I'm all for operating like Gtown, but let's take the bloom off that rose. The hoops program has always been renegade. Half the country thinks Gtown is an HBCU for chrissakes. They've always been able to take kids that the local public couldn't touch. Don't forget the Marc Eggerson fiasco a few years back etc. Again, I'm all for it, but let's not act like SMU is close to that level as of now

[EastStang]

When Thompson arrived at Georgetown from St. Anthony's, he knew that his team could not succeed with a bunch of white kids. He'll tell you that. He was a civil rights activist and was going to integrate Georgetown and picked many fights doing it. I remember him coming to my high school for a tournament right after he was hired to scout a black player from Connecticut who was all world at that time and had high SAT scores (I knew the player pretty well). I remember he came up to me and asked where the Tournament Director was and introduced himself. He was very pleasant, and I asked him if he was here to see that player, he said "yes", and asked if other coaches had been there. I listen to his radio show frequently. He is still very much part of the civil rights movement. Remember, he's of an age that remembers segregation and riding in the back of the bus. Yeah, he got some risky players into Georgetown, but a lot of them also came from very good schools.

[bubba pony]

I was at the airport and in front of me was Coach Thompson and all his players. Everyone was dressed in a suit. All looked very clean cut and polite. I was under the impression men that played for him were taught how to behave like gentleman, not that ghetto pants hanging off your [deleted] stuff.
He left me with a positive impression and I think he tried to be a role model to his players.
I'm trying to say that even if the kids were not the smartest he got the most out of them.

[hoopmanx]

When Thompson arrived at Georgetown from St. Anthony's, he knew that his team could not succeed with a bunch of white kids. He'll tell you that. He was a civil rights activist and was going to integrate Georgetown and picked many fights doing it. I remember him coming to my high school for a tournament right after he was hired to scout a black player from Connecticut who was all world at that time and had high SAT scores (I knew the player pretty well). I remember he came up to me and asked where the Tournament Director was and introduced himself. He was very pleasant, and I asked him if he was here to see that player, he said "yes", and asked if other coaches had been there. I listen to his radio show frequently. He is still very much part of the civil rights movement. Remember, he's of an age that remembers segregation and riding in the back of the bus. Yeah, he got some risky players into Georgetown, but a lot of them also came from very good schools.

He was and is a racist. I sat on the couch for Demetrius Hunter's in home about 10 years ago, and we were all flabbergasted. Never been in anything like it. You would have thought he was recruiting for an apocalyptic race war. Not only that, he actually told a young black male that he'd become a better father by leaving his child behind. He's irresponsible to further his own agenda, no matter who it hurts.

LOL @ getting some risky players into Georgetown. Georgetown's hoops program under his guidance took a huge steamer all over the universities mission statement. Look at how the family responded when Ronnie Thompson got in trouble at Ball St. What did they claim regarding his firing> Racism of course

[EastStang]

You call him a racist, I call him an activist. Either way, he looks at the world through a different lens than I do. He pushed the envelope at Georgetown which when he arrived was a lily white Jesuit University with mostly Catholic kids. He had all the Catholic credentials to pass muster with the Monsignors and was hired. The spires at Georgetown are still standing last time I drove by there. Still go to the hospital regularly with family members and the campus is more diverse than it used to be. I don't agree with him on his race views, but I also believe Georgetown would not be a diverse as it is today, if he hadn't picked fights. And they won a National Championship and would probably have won two if Villanova hadn't shot lights out.

[PonyGirl]

you talk in so much generalizations about so many issues that you don't understand that's its impossible ...

Doesn't understand? His track record suggests hoopmanx understands basketball recruiting far better than any of the rest of us (make that all of the rest of us) ever will.

By the way, offering a kid with low test scores or grades doesn't mean SMU doesn't have academic standards. Admitting those kids shows that, and Harris wasn't admitted.

[Stallion]

NCAA passes legislation that lowers the boom on diploma mills (must earned 10 core credit hours prior to Senior Year) and sub 2.5 GPA JUCOs.

[SoCal_Pony]

NCAA passes legislation that lowers the boom on diploma mills (must earned 10 core credit hours prior to Senior Year) and sub 2.5 GPA JUCOs.

Hoopmanx, what are the implications here? Will the schools still be able to skirt around these new rules?

[hoopmanx]

NCAA passes legislation that lowers the boom on diploma mills (must earned 10 core credit hours prior to Senior Year) and sub 2.5 GPA JUCOs.

Hoopmanx, what are the implications here? Will the schools still be able to skirt around these new rules?

Discussion I had w/an avid fan, and public school teacher in the Baltimore Public school system. When Josh Selby was a senior, nobody wanted to help him b/c he's a bad dude. Will Barton, OTOH, was considered a really nice kid. This teacher friend was brought on to help massage the transcript, so that Will would get through the clearinghouse.

Anyway, if a teacher has the choice to help a kid who can break the cycle, make real money for himself/family, maybe even give back to the community, they pass him,, they work the system for him. You don't keep Will Barton out of Memphis b/c he probably reads at a 7th or 8th grade level.

The NCAA can institute any regulations they wish, but they just don't crack down on cooked transcripts. These kids are moved through a system meant to confuse, and all types sign off on grades.

[SoCal_Pony]

Just as I thought.

And the schools with some degree of academic consciousness, ie SMU (mainly because of our DP past) get scr*wd.

[hoopmanx]

Just as I thought.

And the schools with some degree of academic consciousness, ie SMU (mainly because of our DP past) get scr*wd.

People tend to think I side w/grassroots types, or am pro summer ball etc, and it couldn't be farther from the truth. I have my utopian idea of where this is all headed, and hope to be there when the dust clears. In the meantime, the system is the system. You either understand it, develop the connects to navigate it, or you perish.

The NCAA is a reactionary governing body. They don't have the resources to hunt down ANY of what they need to hunt down. These kids get moved through the system starting at such a young age.

[ponyscott]

You call him a racist, I call him an activist. Either way, he looks at the world through a different lens than I do. He pushed the envelope at Georgetown which when he arrived was a lily white Jesuit University with mostly Catholic kids. He had all the Catholic credentials to pass muster with the Monsignors and was hired. The spires at Georgetown are still standing last time I drove by there. Still go to the hospital regularly with family members and the campus is more diverse than it used to be. I don't agree with him on his race views, but I also believe Georgetown would not be a diverse as it is today, if he hadn't picked fights. And they won a National Championship and would probably have won two if Villanova hadn't shot lights out.

Eaststang?....So based upon your argument, KKK members aren't really racists, they are just merely 'activists' as well? ....C'mon, Thompson has had an agenda for years and its not about equality and MLK campaigning about all races being treated equal, its about Thompson pushing the race issue to his distinct advantage. Thompson has been and always will be a jerk and a racist. He NEVER actively looked at all basketball players equally for Georgetown.....NEVER. It was all about his racist agenda, and now his son's equally as racist agenda.

[gostangs]

Whatever the be schools do is what we HAVE to do. The fun of playing these teams will wear off in half a season if we are getting thrashed. Do what they do. No moral stands that lead to disastrous results

[The PonyGrad]

Off Campus: Basketball should be at top of Big East presidents' agenda

Memo to Big East presidents in Philadelphia for Tuesday's fall conference meetings:

You are now in one of the finer college basketball cities in America. While in town, please consider discussing the sport of basketball at length. We understand your first priority right now is saving Big East football. We understand why your first priority has to be saving Big East football.

But if you severely damage Big East basketball while saving Big East football, you've failed. History will prove it.

The last time the Big East got poached for Miami, Virginia Tech, and Boston College, your chosen replacements made the Big East a better basketball league. This time, you've lost Syracuse, Pittsburgh, and West Virginia. There's no way the Big East avoids taking a massive hoops hit. Replacing them with Houston, SMU, and Central Florida for all sports may work for football and help convince Boise State to join the league. But Houston is the only one of those schools that brings value to Big East hoops. Again, please place hoops high on Tuesday's agenda, not as an afterthought.

Obviously looking to avoid exit fees and get to the Big 12 quickly, West Virginia filed suit against the Big East on Monday. In the suit, which was challenged quickly in a statement released by Big East commissioner John Marinatto, West Virginia suggested the basketball schools had undue influence on choosing football schools. They couldn't have had too much influence, given the choices the league came up with.

Through this whole realignment mess, basketball coaches have made the most noise and have had the least influence. There's a reason Louisville coach Rick Pitino has made a lot of noise. He understands he doesn't speak for Louisville, just for Rick Pitino, which gives him great freedom to speak his mind.

"I have no vote," Pitino told me at Big East media day when I asked him how much he influences Louisville's thinking.

Now that Louisville is staying in the Big East - at least until the Big 12 revisits adding a couple more schools, maybe as soon as next year - the Big East should pay a little attention to Pitino. Yes, his agenda is transparent. He's a New York guy who heavily recruits the East Coast. On his current team, he has two players from New York City, one from New Jersey, and one from Rhode Island. Adding Boise State for football-only means nothing to him. You won't find any players on Pitino's roster from Idaho or from Texas.

But Pitino isn't being self-serving when he suggests Temple and Memphis need to be added to Big East basketball. He also pointed out at Big East media day that these decisions aren't really affecting him or Jim Boeheim or Jim Calhoun. Those guys will be gone soon enough. If you look at the history of college sports, these are 20-year decisions being made right now.

Pitino certainly isn't being self-serving when he advocates the Big East add Memphis. He simply understands the importance of rivalries in college basketball. We don't know if Pitino could have stomached shilling for Memphis if John Calipari were still there. But he does understand that a Memphis-Louisville-Cincinnati rivalry is good for Memphis, Louisville, and Cincinnati.

We've advocated the position that the Big East should add Temple for all sports and give Villanova the option of moving up in football if the next Big East TV package has enough value to make a move-up fiscally sound. A local rivalry between the two schools in football and basketball would be terrific for this city and add something to the Big East, if they can look beyond market share. For football, the Big East has to decide if having both would bring value (i.e., television revenue) to the league. It would be good for both schools.

Apparently, the answer on the TV value is no. But that answer also diminishes the basketball league. Central Florida has never won an NCAA Division I tournament game. The last time SMU won an NCAA tournament game was 1988, before any current SMU players were born. (Again, we're fully on board with Houston. The main school in a market of that size, a rich history, from Elvin Hayes and Phi Slamma Jamma through an NCAA appearance as recently as 2010 - sign 'em up.)

SMU and Central Florida are coming, though, assuming this football model doesn't crumble completely. And Central Florida is a smart move for football. Given that, the Big East basketball league needs to get a little larger, to try and add muscle to its weakening hoop structure.

Temple is clearly trying to pull out whatever stops it can pull. On Monday, Mayor Nutter's office announced it had sent a letter to Marinatto advocating for Temple.

Throughout this realignment mess, we've tried to look at which Big East schools have the leverage, where the voting blocs are. Right now, Boise State obviously has the leverage. Getting Boise in the league is the linchpin to saving the football arrangement. If Boise wants Brigham Young, and BYU signs on, that's a no-brainer, despite the geographic craziness. If BYU passes and Boise wants Wyoming or Eastern Washington or College of Western Idaho as a travel partner, you may have to OK it.

But Big East schools that don't play football, a bloc with the most votes, that controls the OK on adding football members, should take this opportunity to talk some more about what Notre Dame would like to see happen to the basketball league, what Louisville and Connecticut want most, what all the rest want, from Georgetown to Marquette. And yes, what Villanova wants. Sorry, Temple fans, Villanova is in that room and has made a lot of money for its hoop brethren in recent years. Any plan will undoubtedly make accommodations for 'Nova. (We said accommodations, not veto power.)

But the greater good - and we mean fiscally as well as philosophically - should go beyond saving football's BCS status and adding value to the next football television contract. The Big East stands for something. It obviously has a strong sports brand, but that brand has little to do with football. That's why Pitino's right on this. He may have thought he was merely making noise while Louisville headed out the door to the Big 12. But that didn't happen, and nobody can predict what will happen over the next year.

Except the ball is finally in the Big East's court for a little while. If Boise State, Navy, and Air Force sign on for football - and that's still a big "if" - then the Big East will have avoided fumbling away the football league entirely.

Now let's see if you presidents can avoid shooting an air ball.

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